keeping the 3.0 buffs - with a surgeon general's warning

I've been toying with the idea of consequences for stat boosts for a while - overshoot effects, withdrawl, mental repercussions of having your brain radically changed then changed back, etc. Unfortunately, any attempt to impose this on players will likely be decried from some corners as unbalancing, nerfing, no fun, or whathaveyou.

However, wizards has given me a mighty boon, in the form of 3.5 revisions to the boosters. Suddenly, nerfing isn't a house rule, lack of it would be. So I am taking this oppertunity to take a second look at the consequences of the old spells, and house rule that it was these consequences (in part) that the new spells were developed to deal with.

So, the rules as I first envision them - the new spells are all named Inspired X. When someone casts Inspired Grace on you, you feel suddenly agile, but at the same time it is natural, as if you were simply feeling your full potential. You act at this inspired potential for only a few minutes, but when it is gone you feel no different than before, except perhaps more relaxed.

However, there is the option rather than casting Inspired Grace, to cast an older, some say cruder spell instead - Cat's Grace. Cat's Grace has a less predictable effect, and the spell lasts much longer (hours instead of minutes) but the differences are deeper than that. The agility brought by Cat's Grace seems to come from outside the recipient, filling him up and making him feel a different person. A first time recipient of the spell may feel amazed, even distracted by his new adeptness, and often overestimates how much he has improved. Over the course of the spell's duration he adapts to these changes, feeling this is his true ability. As a result, when Cat's Grace expires, the former recipent feel not his natural self, but suddenly lessened. He may feel tired, clumsy or slow for some time afterwards. Worse, if he then again becomes the recipient of Cat's Grace with little unenhanced time in between, he may come to feel that the enhancement is his natural true state. The aftereffects become more pronounced and last longer, and he craves a new application of the spell as if it was the cure to a disease which now plaugues him.

Effects of the cruder versions of Inspired Splendor or Inspired Cunning can be even worse. If these spells instill their full potency, the effects can actually be temporarily damaging. The recipient is dazed by his new mental state and may take several minutes to focus on the outside world and immediate concerns. When the enhancements go away, the recipient is often confused or depressed, trying to recapture those elusive ideas or feelings he had under the spell's effects. Repeated use of these crude mentally enhancing spells is strongly discouraged...

I'll probably allow Inspired Grace and Cat's Grace to be learned as essentially the same spell, so a caster with limited spells known doesn't have to choose one over the other. The difference comes at the casting or preparation.

Any thoughts? I know I don't have the effects in concrete terms yet, but what do people think of the overall idea?

Kahuna burger

I love this idea. I like the "dark side to magic" infusions. They build character (LOL).

I think to start with, the recipient of an anibuff version should suffer a -2 to the stat for 10 minutes after coming down.

Perhaps you (or they) would have to keep a running total of how many times they were the recipient of a particular ani-buff and if it equals their natural ability score they have to roll a fort or will save (depending on physical or mental stat) at a sizeable DC (say 20 + number of spells cast) or loose 2 points from the stat permanently.

In addition, I think that using the anibiff versions would make them resistant to the Inspire versions. Perhaps if they have been the recipient of an anibuff spell in the last month, they must roll a save against the inspire spell (whether they like it or not). If they ever lose points from a stat permanently, they become forever immune to the Inspire spell for that stat (making them effectively dependant upon the anibuffs...a vicious cycle).

DC

I also think that druids should have a different effect from the anibuff versions of the spells. Perhaps a druid can ignore some of the effects of the anibuffs once they gain wild shape. When they do, they keep track just as they always have but when they fail their save and lose points in a stat, they would instead wildshape into the animal form for 1d4+1 days. For that time they would be mentally and physically the animal, completely out of the character's control. When they changed back, they would be highly familiar with the form, though.

just another thought.

DC

I'm not a fan of penalties that take away a player's control over his character - it's fine to put the character in difficult situations, but a GM should try never to take control of the character. This is one of the reasons I don't like the lycanthrope rules as written: one character I was playing became a wererat. He was more of a threat to the party than half the enemies we were facing and the most frustrating part was that there was no one in the module who could cure the character - as a player my only options were to create a new character, or run the old one and try my best never to be damaged in combat (yeah, right...) The role-playing penalties suggested for the old buff spells can easily cross this line, IMHO.

All that said, I like the idea of two types of spells, with the cruder versions having different drawbacks and benefits. One suggestion: after the old spell wears off, the recipient must make a save (Fort for physical stat, Will for mental) or suffer a penalty to the affected stat equal to the bonus received for the same amount of time the stat was boosted. In addition, the recipient has a -1 penalty to the save for every time the spell was cast upon him in the past 7 days.

Example: Erik the Strong has bull's strength cast on him by a 6th-level wizard. The wizard rolls +4 to Erik's strength. 6 hours later Erik must make a Fort save or suffer -4 to his strength for 6 hours. If the wizard throws this spell on Erik every day, then the Fort save will be at -7. BTW, this is only a drawback in campaigns where parties cannot always rest safely after a few encounters - there has to be a real risk of being in combat while the penalty is in effect.

Another option is to have the spells have reduced effect if used too often, say -1 to the 1d4+1 roll for every consecutive day in which the spell is cast on the same recipient. In this situation, the players would have to plan ahead, or possibly gain no benefit from the spell when it is most needed.

Kahuna Burger said:

Any thoughts? I know I don't have the effects in concrete terms yet, but what do people think of the overall idea?

Click to expand...

It rocks. Simple 'nuff?

The forced shapechange for the druid was just a secondary idea. I agree with the potential problems.

I like the general idea of your suggestion SW but I (personally) think there should be something more long term and degrading. The difference between 1 min/level and 1/hr per level is HUGE. There needs to be a very large reason that people would choose not to use the anibuff version.

The equal penalty for equal time, as you said, only works if there is no chance to rest.

Long term degradation only works if there is a long term game.

Pehaps both then. (With or without the druid thing).

DC

Kahuna Burger said:

Any thoughts? I know I don't have the effects in concrete terms yet, but what do people think of the overall idea?

Click to expand...

I didn't like the idea of addictive Anibuffs, but if there's a non-addictive alternative, suddenly it's really cool.

Here's how I'd do it:

- Inspired Buff: 1 min/level; only V & S components

- Anibuf: 10 min/level; V, S, M component (30 GP or so in value); low chance of addiction

- Longbuff: 1 hour/level; V, S and Drug component (like in the BoVD) -- something simple but addictive for physical stats, but something really evil for mental stats -- like Liquid Pain

-- Nifft

I love it. Consider it stolen.

Ok, first some thoughts on method. There are many ways to divvy up buff spells, though it should be mentioned first and foremost they are all transmutations. I like the "heightening" and "diminishing" effects you have put into the spells, much like Monte Cook's spell design mechanic for AU.

My attempt (along the same lines):

[I was going for a common name so they would be next to each other in a spell list]

Induce Strength
Transmutation
Spell Level: Brd2, Clr 2, Drd 2, Wiz/Sor 2, Strength 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)

This spell causes the subject to become stronger and has 2 modes of casting.

Instant- This mode has a casting time of 1 free action. It provides a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength for 1 min/level.

Protracted- This mode has a casting time of 1 full round. It provides a 1d4+1 enhancement bonus to Strength for 1 hour/level. This mode may be empowered or maximized.

Arcane Material Focus: A few hairs from a strong creature, like a bull.

XP Cost: 10 exp per hour beyond the first.

I like the flavor of the animalistic vs arcane spell, but I think it is too restricting (ie- players may not bother).

Technik