Feat Master

Has anyone seen the "feat master" prestige class before?

Description:
The feat master is a meta-class. This is a game mechanic that allows a character to gain more feats.

Requirements:
Must have at least one level in another class

Hit Die: 1d6
Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier
Class Skills:
Climb (Str), Concentration, Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str)

Level Attack Fort Reflex Will Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +0 Special Multiclassing, Three Bonus Feats
2 +1 +0 +0 +0 Two Bonus Feats
3 +2 +1 +1 +1 Three Bonus Feats
4 +3 +1 +1 +1 Two Bonus Feats
5 +3 +1 +1 +1 Three Bonus Feats

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: none

Special Multiclassing - Like all prestige classes, the feat master does not bestow any experience penalties for multiclassing. Additionally, the multiclassing restrictions placed on monks and paladins do not apply to the feat master.

Three Bonus Feats - The feat master gains 3 feats. These feats are in addition to the feats the character normally gains every 3 levels.

Two Bonus Feats - The feat master gains 2 feats. These feats are in addition to the feats the character normally gains every 3 levels.

It's off of the 3.5E Tower http://www.geocities.com/towerthebroken/pc-feat-master.html

What do you think? Useless, overpowered, or what? I'm thinking of using it to get a good chunk of feats one would want with no level prerequisites in the first level or two.

Thanks,
Eltern

Eltern said:

What do you think? Useless, overpowered, or what? I'm thinking of using it to get a good chunk of feats one would want with no level prerequisites in the first level or two.

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I'm calling it as overpowered. Three feats is a significant chunk. I could definitely see a paladin, ranger or barbarian taking a level of this in order to get a bunch of feats to up his fighting ability and then overshadow the fighter.

Note: The fighter is the class that gets bonus feats the fastest, and it gets one feat every other level. This class gets 5 feats/2 levels - that's five times as many as the fighter. OK, it doesn't get much else, but that's still a honkin' big load of feats.

I like the idea, but how about this fairly minor change?

First level 1 feat
2nd level 2 feats
3rd level 3 feats
4th level 4 feats
5th level 5 feats

it winds up giving 2 more than yours, but it also gives some major incentive to take those later levels of it.. way more investment, more reward. I think you could knock the hd up to d8 or d10 as well

It's overpowered and allows any of the martial (or even semi-martial) classes to totally destroy the Fighter. At some point, every character will have a reason to take at least one level in this class-- since everyone can use extra feats-- which is the main criteria for whether or not a class is overpowered.

Of all of the attempts to create a "feat master" class (which is largely the Fighter's role), I must admit that this is the only one I have seen that awards quite so many feats in so few levels.

The Fighter is already somewhat of a joke past level 8, this would make the Fighter a Komedy Klass at all points in time. In 5 levels you get every single class feature of being a Fighter for 20 levels, except moreso. The 10 hitpoints, 2 BAB, and +3 Fortitude you lose for not taking the Fighter for 5 levels doesn't even being to compare to the 8 more feats you gain in that same time. Every single non-caster would be an absolute idiot to not take the full 5 levels of this class, every single caster would be a fool not to grab 1 or 2 levels, and every single one of them would be so much better then a Fighter that it wouldn't be funny.

Jesus H Christ, it even have a better list of Class Skills then a Fighter.

A REMOTELY balanced variant would give a single feat every level and have a 1/2 BAB progression. That's it.

Staffan said:

This class gets 5 feats/2 levels - that's five times as many as the fighter. OK, it doesn't get much else, but that's still a honkin' big load of feats.

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It's important to note that a Fighter doesn't get much else besides Feats either.

Just because the fighter is a joke already past level 2 or so doesnt mean that other classes have to suffer because of this. If this class has some large prereq's and kills your bab progression along with saves and gains feats in their place then that seems just perfectly fine.

Really, the fighter needs a massive boost. This class is probably ok. Most classes will have no reason to take it as the first two levels really cut into special abilities and taking all 5 pretty much relegates you to only feats.

If the fighter had a reason to stay in it then people would, since it doesnt people dont. That has nothing to do with this guy.

Scion said:

This class is probably ok. Most classes will have no reason to take it as the first two levels really cut into special abilities and taking all 5 pretty much relegates you to only feats.

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By taking 5 levels of this class, a paladin, for example, would end up with Remove Disease one less time a week, Smite Evil one less time a day, and 2 less 4th level Spells, they would gain 13 Feats. A Ranger could take 3 levels and exchange Favored Enemy 5 and 2 4th level spells for 8 Feats. A Rogue could exchange +2d6 to Sneak Attack and a Special Ability for 10 Feats. A Barbarian could exchange +2 to str while raging and -1 to damage for 8 Feats. Allow me to roll my eyes.

2 less BAB is not "killing" your BAB, -2 to a save (worst case scenario) can be made up with a single one of your 13 feats.

Sure. Plus your paladin has lost out on an average of 10hp (3 feat equivalent), certain skills, a bunch of benefits for his mount, loss in spell casting.

How many feats are those 2 fourth level spells worth? there arent any feats that can gain those back. So we'll just say two.

Spell casting levels? say one each, two more.

Remove disease? another one.

Smite evil? sure, one more.

That is 9 right there. Now he also lost 2 BAB which is a significant loss for a primary melee type. His mount will never be anywhere near as strong as it could be. Being forced to use at least one of the feats you gained on a save feat just cuts into the amount that you actually get to use for something else.

Seems like an all right trade really. Especially considering what is lost.

I still think that mine is better though, it makes it a much harder choice. With some prereq's it'll become even harder to choose.

The choice for rogues is even worse, they delay getting their higher abilities for a long time. Absolutely destroy their skill points for a few levels. With the one I put up I couldnt see most any rogue going for it unless they had a specific feat chain they really wanted. If that is true then more power to them, give up power from one class for some from another. Few feats are incredibly overpowering, those that are generally need to be fixed by the dm whether this option is here or not.

Scion said:

Sure. Plus your paladin has lost out on an average of 10hp (3 feat equivalent), certain skills, a bunch of benefits for his mount, loss in spell casting.

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10 hp is nothing. The difficulty of using Toughness to simulate it is the result of Toughness being alongside Endurance in the joke feat category.

The Paladin has a better skillset as a Feat Master then as a Paladin, The only skill of note that he loses is Sense Motive. He keeps his essential skills of Diplomacy, Concentration, Ride, and Handle Animal.

How many feats are those 2 fourth level spells worth? there arent any feats that can gain those back. So we'll just say two.

Spell casting levels? say one each, two more.

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Quit pretending that any class feature is worth a feat. If there was an alternate Barbarian with no Trap Sense, but with 6 bonus feats, would you be defending the class as balanced since each of those levels of Trap Sense was worth a feat? The Paladin is a crummy caster with a mediocre spell list and only half caster level.

Remove disease? another one.

Smite evil? sure, one more.

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lol

That is 9 right there. Now he also lost 3 BAB which is a huge loss for a primary melee type. His mount will never be anywhere near as strong as it could be. Being forced to use at least one of the feats you gained on a save feat just cuts into the amount that you actually get to use for something else.

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A) The Mount has a Spell Resistance 5 lower, that's it.

B) It's two BAB, not 3. It's also insignificant.

Seems like an all right trade really. Especially considering what is lost.

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Just by browsing through my Complete Warrior, allow me to list some Feats that the Paladin could take and their effect.

1. Close Quarter Fighting: AOE whenever someone tries a Grapple. If it hits, grapple is avoided.

2-3.Extra Smite: 4 more Smites per day

4. Improved Toughness: +1 hp/level. Results in a higher hitpoint total then a straight Paladin.

5. Power Critical: +4 to Threat Confirms

6. Divine Vigor: Use Turn Undead use to increase speed by 10 and grant 2 temp hitpoints per level. Lasts 1 minute per Charisma Bonus.

7. Calvary Charger: not going to bother typing it all out, but it's really really unpleasant.

8-10. Iron Will, Great Fort, Lightning Reflexies: +2 to all saves.

10-13. Whatever I feel like

I lost 2 BAB, a Remove Disease/Week, and 2 4th Level Spells for that. My character has better saves, more hitpoints, more smites, is better at mounted combat, and can generally whomp any straight Paladin.