Deific Knights v2

OK, took another stab at it, but went with customization based on clerical domains. I got this idea from Master AO’s point that this would seem to create to many classes. By going at it in the exact same fashion as clerical powers are picked, it solves this problem in the same way that all clerics, even with different domains, are one class.

So, each holy warrior (I’ll call them that unofficially until a better name is found as I don’t want to plagiarize Green Ronin) can choose 2 domains from their deity’s domain list just as a cleric of that deity does. However, instead of just picking a domain power at 1st level, they choose powers from 1st through 8th levels. If a spell is granted as an ability lower than 6th level, it can be cast a number of times per day equal to the holy warrior’s charisma bonus. All spells are cast as a sorcerer the same level as the holy warrior’s class level.

Powers per Level:
1st: choose 2 of the 4 domain powers
2nd: receive 2 domain powers
3rd: receive 2 domain powers
4th: spell casting & choose 1 of the 2 domain powers
5th: choose 1 of the 2 domain powers (these are usually mounts/companions/etc)
6th-8th: choose 1 of the 6 domain spells (these are always spells from the chosen domains)

For the 6th, 7th, & 8th level spells, the holy warrior can cast a single spell from one of their deity’s domain spell list. You can choose a spell at any of these levels. However, the level you choose to take it affects the level of spell you can take.

A spell taken at 6th level can be 3rd level & the casting progression is as follows:
6th – 1/week
9th – 2/week
12th – 3/week
15th – 4/week
18th – 5/week

A spell taken at 7th level can be 4th level & the casting progression is as follows:
7th – 1/week
11th – 2/week
15th – 3/week
19th – 4/week

A spell taken at 8th level can be 5th level & the casting progression is as follows:
8th – 1/week
12th – 2/week
16th – 3/week
20th – 4/week

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Here are the example domains from Auril, Chauntea, Lathander, Talos, Tempus, Tymora, & Tyr. (The cold & justice domains have been added to Auril & Tyr respectively to add some flavor.)

Domain: Animal
1st level: Class Skills – handle animal & ride
1st level: Animal Empathy
2nd level: Scent
3rd: level: Speak with Animals
4th level: Rebuke Animals
5th level: Animal Companion

Domain: Chaos
1st level: Detect Law
1st level: Smite Law
2nd level: Charisma Bonus to All Saves (Divine Grace)
3rd: level: Aura of Fear
4th level: Turn Lawful Outsider
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Cold
1st level: Class Skill – survival; + charisma bonus on all checks
1st level: Endure Elements (cold only)
2nd level: Cold Resistance (2/lvl)
3rd: level: Frosting Weapon (1day; on deity’s favored weapon only)
4th level: Turn Fire / Rebuke Cold (Creature Subtypes)
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Destruction
1st level: Add charisma bonus when attempting to break anything
1st level: Smite Anything
2nd level: Crit Object/Construct
3rd: level: Aura of Fear
4th level: Turn Construct
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Earth
1st level: Feat – Great Fortitude
1st level: Smite Air Subtype
2nd level: charisma bonus times/day, Natural AC + charisma bonus for 1 round
3rd: level: DR 1/magic; +1 per 5 class levels
4th level: Turn Air Subtype
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Evil
1st level: Detect Good
1st level: Smite Good
2nd level: Charisma Bonus to All Saves (Divine Grace)
3rd: level: Aura of Fear
4th level: Turn Good Outsider
5th level: Mount

Domain: Fire
1st level: Feat – Power Attack
1st level: Smite Water Subtype
2nd level: Resist Fire 2/lvl
3rd: level: Flaming Weapon (1day; on deity’s favored weapon only)
4th level: Turn Water Subtype
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Good
1st level: Detect Evil
1st level: Smite Evil
2nd level: Charisma Bonus to All Saves (Divine Grace)
3rd: level: Aura of Courage
4th level: Turn Evil Outsider
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Justice
1st level: Gaze of Justice
1st level: Smite Known Criminal
2nd level: Shield of Righteousness
3rd: level: Aura of Fear
4th level: Turn Known Criminal
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Knowledge
1st level: Class Skills –Knowledge (all)
1st level: Choose 2 Knowledge skills, + charisma bonus to checks
2nd level: Receive Charisma Bonus to Will Saves
3rd: level: Caster Level +1 for Divination Spells
4th level: Bardic Knowledge (1/2 class level)
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Law
1st level: Detect Chaos
1st level: Smite Chaos
2nd level: Charisma Bonus to All Saves (Divine Grace)
3rd: level: Aura of Courage
4th level: Turn Chaotic Outsider
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Nobility
1st level: Class Skills – Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Etiquette), Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty), & Sense Motive
1st level: 1/day allies within 10’ gain +1 on d20 rolls for 1 round
2nd level: Immune to Fear
3rd: level: Aura of Courage
4th level: Rebuke Lower Social Standing
5th level: Leadership

Domain: Plant
1st level: Class Skills – Knowledge (Nature) & Survival
1st level: ???
2nd level: Pass without Trace
3rd: level: Speak with Plants
4th level: Rebuke Plants
5th level: Plant Companion

Domain: Protection
1st level: Class Skill – sense motive; + charisma bonus on all checks
1st level: Protection from Alignment – Can cast any PfA spell for alignments opposite your deity’s
2nd level: Lay on Hands
3rd: level: Immune to Disease
4th level: Grant bonus to a save equal to class level
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Renewal
1st level: Stamina Regeneration 2x as Fast (Fatigued & Exhausted conditions)
1st level: ???
2nd level: Renewal Clerical Domain Power
3rd: level: Aura of Renewal (healing spells cast on subjects with negative hps within 10’ are empowered)
4th level: Turn Undead
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Retribution
1st level: Feat – Power Attack
1st level: Strike of Vengeance (Smite someone who has damaged you)
2nd level: Chosen Enemy
3rd: level: Aura of Fear
4th level: Turn Chosen Enemy
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Storm
1st level: Class Skill – survival; + charisma bonus on all checks
1st level: Smite Air & Water Subtypes
2nd level: Resist Cold & Electricity 1 per 2 levels
3rd: level: Vivid Discharge
4th level: Aura of Calm (Natural storm effects (except temp) don’t affect those within 10’)
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Strength
1st level: Lift It (+3 bonus to strength when lifting an object)
1st level: Feat of Strength (Strength Clerical Domain Power)
2nd level: Receive Charisma Bonus to Fortitude Saves
3rd: level: Improved Power Attack or Power Attack if you don’t have it
4th level: Greater Rage 1/day, but you are winded 2x as long
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: Sun
1st level: Class Skill – Knowledge (Astronomy); + charisma bonus on all checks
1st level: Light
2nd level: Augment Turning 1/day (Add a turning enhancement feat)
3rd: level: Caster Level +1 for Light Spells
4th level: Turn Undead & Shadow
5th level: Familiar/Minion

Domain: Travel
1st level: Feat - Run
1st level: Hump It (+2 bonus to strength with carrying an object)
2nd level: Feat - Endurance
3rd: level: All armor treated as one category lighter for movement & encumbrance purposes
4th level: “Rebuke Landlord”
5th level: Special Mount

Domain: War
1st level: Detect Chosen Enemy
1st level: Smite Chosen Enemy
2nd level: Battle Cry (Allies that hear you get +1 bonus to hit & damage)
3rd: level: Feat – Any Fight Feat (still have to qualify for it)
4th level: Turn Chosen Enemy
5th level: Special Mount

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Based on the above, the standard paladin would be a holy warrior that chose the good & protection domains. The only differences would be who gets turned & the spell chosen.

1st level: Detect Evil (Good)
1st level: Smite Evil (Good)
2nd level: Divine Grace (Good)
2nd level: Lay on Hands (Protection)
3rd level: Aura of Courage (Good)
3rd level: Immune to Disease (Protection)
4th level: Turn Evil Outsider (Good)
5th level: Special Mount (Good)
6th level: Magic Circle Against Evil (Good)

This can be done with all the variant paladin & blackguard classes from Dragon 310 & 312. Some will vary a bit.

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Please let me know what y’all think. I’m also looking for a name for the class - suggestions would be appreciated.

Two notes:

One Holy Warrior is Green Ronin, NOT AEG. Two this class does have some nice features...but seems a little TOO powerful compared just a paladin.

Nightfall said:

One Holy Warrior is Green Ronin, NOT AEG.

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Doh, fixed. How embarrassing...

Nightfall said:

Two this class does have some nice features...but seems a little TOO powerful compared just a paladin.

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Please do explain why you think so. I'm very interested in making a balanced playable option, as I'm bored with the generic paladin. Issues 310 & 312, helped, but they fueled my interest more than dousing it.

Thanks.

Mostly because paladins, while having spells and few magic powers, are not on part with the verstile of a fighter nor having the true arcane/divine powers of today's 3.0/3.5 cleric Yes they got more smites and pokemount, but otherwise what you are doing here is giving these "Holy" Warriors a whole HOST of powers that make them greater/ if not equal to a cleric. Part of balance is being weaker in some areas than other core classes. For the paladin he should be a middling fighter/occcasionally exceptional. Here you have a holy warrior that could fight toe to toe with a Balor at equal the CR rating. Just take Good and Law and he'll be whipping them down with very little to hold him back. Or by revesal, kick around celestial more than blackguards can. So you see while I think spreading out the powers is fine, what you should do is ONLY have it affect small amounts at each level within each sphere of influence. Look at AU's Champion to see what I'm talking about. If you need more advice use that more as a base and go from there.

Nightfall said:

Mostly because paladins, while having spells and few magic powers, are not on part with the verstile of a fighter nor having the true arcane/divine powers of today's 3.0/3.5 cleric Yes they got more smites and pokemount, but otherwise what you are doing here is giving these "Holy" Warriors a whole HOST of powers that make them greater/ if not equal to a cleric.

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Maybe I missed something when I worked this out & they are more much more powerful & I’m still missing it. I think I did find a few places where I erred I my description.

Look at AU's Champion to see what I'm talking about. If you need more advice use that more as a base and go from there.

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I’ll try check out AU’s champion (I think a friend has the book), but in the meantime, I’ll make another paladin comparison.

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BAB: Same.

Saves: Same. (Worse if you don’t take a domain that grants Divine Grace)

Skills: Points are the same; sometimes you get more skills to dump points into, but you still have the same few points to spend.

Spellcasting: Progression is the same; having one higher-level spell that’s of the same level, gained at the same level, & has the same progression for times castable per week. Do you think the warrior being able to choose their spell is too much freedom?

Mount: special mounts are the same, but some classes get a “special minion” instead that has the same basic power progression as the special mount. I’m no realizing that using the term familiar & companion wasn’t correct. I don’t want to give this class the powers that a familiar gives its master. I just don’t see some deities granting their warriors a huge ol’ mount to ride around on.

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So let’s say someone does choose Good & Law, which IMO would be a very poor choice as intended, but perhaps not explained the best in some parts.

1st level: I guess you could smite evil & chaos. That would be a whole lot of smiting going on. Not that you could detect evil or chaos at all, but you could go around wasting your smites on non-obvious targets or same them for the really obvious balrog.

2nd level: Divine Grace. And no, I wouldn’t let it stack. Personally, I think this ability has always been too powerful, but I kept it in anyway to try & make the alignment domains worth taking.

3rd level: Aura of Courage. I guess you could let them stack & either allow double the bonus/same range or same bonus/double the range. This one isn’t too over powering if you do, but then you’d have 2 different standards of stacking & not stacking. Tough call. Thoughts?

4th level: You can either turn evil or chaotic outsiders. I don’t see how either choice is more or less powerful than turning undead. You can only do one or the other.

4th level: Standard paladin type spell progression starts.

5th level: Standard paladin type special mount appears.

6th level: You can choose magic circle against evil or chaos. Better than remove disease IMO, but they are both 3rd level spells.

7th level: Only applicable if you skipped taking a spell at 6th level. You can cast holy smite or order’s wrath. You had to wait a level & the most you can ever cast them is 4 times/week.

8th level: Only applicable if you skipped a spell at 6th and 7th level. You can cast dispel evil or chaos.

Part of balance is being weaker in some areas than other core classes. For the paladin he should be a middling fighter/occcasionally exceptional. Here you have a holy warrior that could fight toe to toe with a Balor at equal the CR rating. Just take Good and Law and he'll be whipping them down with very little to hold him back. Or by revesal, kick around celestial more than blackguards can. So you see while I think spreading out the powers is fine, what you should do is ONLY have it affect small amounts at each level within each sphere of influence.

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Does this clear up the power issues you were seeing at all?

The class has a relatively small niche where it’s specialized & still has the same number of powers as the original paladin class.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Firstly turning either outsiders is not something ANY class can to until they are of epic level. That or they take a prestige class and even then it's usually not until around 14th level. So already you're better than half the clerics and paladins out there. Turning undead is one thing, as most are low levels. But turning outsiders is another since most low level fiends have a CR rating of 5 (not including of course manes and others but you get my point)

Secondly casting order's wrath or any of those spells kind of make the cleric a little obsolete as they are usually the ones that have access to it. However if you are tossing out clerics as well then I guess holy warrior could serve in that role as well.

I guess we just have different PoVs about how a holy warrior should be. But if you think it works, that's fine.