Savante Class - Critique and comment

I'm toying with this in one game I play and another I run. I'm curious what flaws/loopholes people see with this before it has a chance cause problems. Be cruel; I mainly want it for some cohorts and oddball NPCs rather than playing one. Tho' one player has expressed interest should his bard die....

Hopefully this class explains its purpose as compared to many of the other "he's an expert...only better!" variants. Think of Da Vinci, Newton, Franklin, and Archimedes. Individuals that pushed the boundaries and demonstrated wide ranging skills that altered the world.

Savante
These highly focussed individuals are a mixture of genius and eclectic thought. Individualistic they may be, but given a team of experts they can achieve wonders within their field without the use of magic. The early farmer savants developed crop rotation and efficient plowing while the engineers and other craftsmen created new dams and diversions to handle the unpredictable storms that flooded the lands.

Healers, engineers, alchemists, sages, craftsmen, professionals, and even political savants exist. While most savants are not particular combat oriented there are many weaponsmith savants who design their own custom weapons. These savants typically are the first to master the unique properties of their weapon. (Many times they are the only ones to do so.) Some few mystical savants appear and most move on to become Loremasters.

Savants are incredibly curious and their minds constantly absorb information. Over time they acquire an amazing ability to "wing it" when face with an unusual sitation by extrapolating from their exhaustive knowledge base. furthermore they are far from static and their particular realm of expertise tends to wander with age as they explore various fields of study.


Savant
HD:d6
Skills/level: 8
Class skills: All craft, profession and knowledge. In addition choose any ten skills, including those that are exclusive.
BAB: 3/4 (cleric/rogue)
Saves: will good (wizard/sorcerer)
Weapon & armor proficiencies: Light armor & simple weapons.
Alignment: no restriction but tend to be either extremely lawful or extremely chaotic.

level
BAB F R W special
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 mastery
2 +1 +0 +0 +3
3 +2 +1 +1 +3 mastery
4 +3 +1 +1 +4 additional class skill
5 +3 +1 +1 +4
6 +4 +2 +2 +5 mastery
7 +5 +2 +2 +5 additional class skill
8 +6 +2 +2 +6
9 +6 +3 +3 +6 excellence
10 +7 +3 +3 +7 additional class skill
11 +8 +3 +3 +7
12 +9 +4 +4 +8 jack of all trades
13 +9 +4 +4 +8 additional class skill
14 +10 +4 +4 +9
15 +11 +5 +5 +9 par excellence
16 +12 +5 +5 +10 additional class skill
17 +12 +5 +5 +10
18 +13 +6 +6 +11 par excellence
19 +14 +6 +6 +11 additional class skill
20 +16 +6 +6 +12

-----------------

Mastery: choose one of the following:
Skill Focus
Exotic Weapon proficiency
one of the skill-based feats from the splat books

-----------------


Excellence: choose one of the following:
Greater Skill Focus (additional +2 to a skill they already have Skill Focus)
Any feat they meet the pre-reqs

-----------------

Jack of all Trades: As feat from Song & Silence. IIRC, may attempt to use any skill Untrained (excluding exclusive skills they do not have)

-----------------

Par Excellence: may choose one of the following:
Excellence

A feat that they do not meet one pre-req for, including
class restriction. E.G. may choose weapon specialization despite not being a Fighter:4 but only if they already have weapon focus. Alternately they could take Power Attack despite having a strength less than 13.

One special ability from another class. Ability can be extraordinary (Uncanny Dodge) but not supernatural (no Smite) or spell-like (no Wildshape). If the ability is gradiated then the Savante gets it in the order provided to the given class (i.e first time Uncanny Dodge chosen the Savante does not lose Dex bonus to AC, second time means they cannot be flanked except by a rogue with 4 more levels than the Savante)

a few tips for posting classes: Since you already mentioned what the BAB and Good/Bad saves are, theirs no reason to put them on the table. Also, the BAB at 20th level is 15 not 16. Lastly, there are nor exclusive skills anymore (at least not in 3.5).

on to the class itself...
You really should list the feats/ class abilities that their special abilities can grant. Also, what if the special abilitiy improves with class level? For instance, if they took Druid's Animal Companion as their par excellence ability, would their effetive Druid level be their Savant level, or would they have to take par excellence again to gain an additional effective Druid level? If they choose the Monk's unarmed strike ability, do they deal damage as a Monk of their level? If not, when they take par excellence (unarmed strike) again, do they deal damage as a second level Monk, or as a 4th level Monk (when the Monk's unarmed damage increases)?

Looks like your concept is based on the abilities to pick-and choose skills and class abilities. The Akashic class from Arcana Unearthed (by Malhovic Press, not the recently-released Unearthed Arcana by WoTC), and can be carried over into a standard D&D game with no problems.

Witness said:

there are no exclusive skills anymore (at least not in 3.5).

Click to expand...

The class is/might be used in one 3.0 and one 3.5 game so it's written for both. We haven't started the 3.5 game yet which is why I'm asking for input. I'm very comfortable with the 3.0 aspects but 3.5 is still rather much a mystery. If I need to split out the versions that's what I'll do.

You really should list the feats/ class abilities that their special abilities can grant.

Click to expand...

That's explicitly what I'm trying to avoid. The rulebooks in play are different for each campaign, nor do I own all the ones that are available. This class is also supposed to be infinitely flexible within the bounds of the non-supernatural.

Also, what if the special abilitiy improves with class level?

Click to expand...

The Savante is assumed to have the ability at the minimum level when acquired. If the ability does not increment but is somehow level dependant, consider the Savante's full class level. Otherwise each increment requires an additional use of Par Excellence.

I.E. Sneak Attack acquired by an 18th level Savante is good for +1d6. The savante would use his Savante level to determine if he could sneak attack a character with Improved Uncanny Dodge. Additional dice of sneak attack would require additional Par Excellence.

Improved Uncanny Dodge possessed by a 20th level Savante would render him unflankable except by a 24th level rogue (or other character with the Sneak Attack ability).

For instance, if they took Druid's Animal Companion as their par excellence ability, would their effetive Druid level be their Savant level, or would they have to take par excellence again to gain an additional effective Druid level?
If they choose the Monk's unarmed strike ability, do they deal damage as a Monk of their level?

Click to expand...

Animal Companion in 3.0 requires the spell Animal Friendship so it cannot be taken as it is Supernatural or Spell-like ability. 3.5....Hmmm, it did turn into an Extraordinary. Rather surprising since the Paladin mount is Spell-like.

The first use would give the lowest tier of Animal Companion with each additional use going up one notch.

The same would go for the monkish unarmed attack, each use providing a new die step, though I think a clause for "bundled" powers needs to be added. Unarmed Strike includes the imp. unarmed attack feat + extra toys. I think the standard "GM Caveat" and the recommendation to expect each feat to be paid for separately from extra toys unless a special condition is added that the GM approves of.

Looks fine to me. And yea the Akashic is similiar but it comes with baggage that I dont think this person is looking for. an Akashic's abilities while not themselves supernatural are basicaly supernatural in origin. via the Akashic Memory

posted by kigmatzomat:

That's explicitly what I'm trying to avoid. The rulebooks in play are different for each campaign, nor do I own all the ones that are available. This class is also supposed to be infinitely flexible within the bounds of the non-supernatural.

Click to expand...

I figured it was something like that. Even so, I think you should address some of the more tricky abilities from the PHB classes so that a DM would know how to handle similar abilities for non-PHB classes.



posted by Merlion:

And yea the Akashic is similiar but it comes with baggage that I dont think this person is looking for. an Akashic's abilities while not themselves supernatural are basicaly supernatural in origin. via the Akashic Memory

Click to expand...

The mechanics are good, though. The 'Akashic memory' stuff is just flavor text and can easily be changed.

Yea, but thease mechanics are good too
And Akashics have several abilities that directly involve the Akashich Memory. what I'm saying is, the Akashic isnt going to work to try and fill the role that this class is being designed to fill.
Like I said, the Savant looks fine to me, especialy as a mainly for NPCs class

Merlion said:

Yea, but thease mechanics are good too

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Like I said, the Savant looks fine to me, especialy as a mainly for NPCs class

Click to expand...

I'd like it to be PC-worthy but I admit it has a distinctive flavor not many people will find appealing. Like I said, right now it fills a setting-specific niche in my 3.0 game (non-tinker gnomes) and will likely be used for a cohort in the 3.5 game. I'm tempted to goose the skills to 10/level so it trumps the rogue somewere.

Merlion said:

Yea, but thease mechanics are good too

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Like I said, the Savant looks fine to me, especialy as a mainly for NPCs class

Click to expand...

I'd like it to be PC-worthy but I admit it has a distinctive flavor not many people will find appealing. Like I said, right now it fills a setting-specific niche in my 3.0 game (non-tinker gnomes) and will likely be used for a cohort in the 3.5 game. I'm tempted to goose the skills to 10/level so it trumps the rogue somewere.