New Race: The Emrudin (With racial prestige class)(Edited)

Merlion

First Post
The last of my mind-score-bonus races...this one is Int
The prestige class probably needs some re arranging I just sort of threw together the last half.


Emrudin

The Emrudin (singular and plural) are a scholarly race of beings, rarely encountered by humans. They are an ancient race that long ago decided that the power of knowledge was greater than the power of the sword. They build enormous libraries and repositories of magical knowledge. However at some point in the past their greatest city was destroyed by a savage race (the accounts are unclear as to who), and after that the Emrudin took to a life of secrecy. The bulk of the race resides in hidden cities in far off locations, such as on the tops of great mountains or beneath the sea. However some Emrudin believe that isolation runs counter to the pursuit of knowledge, and these Emrudin travel about the world, seeking to learn all they can about other races, magic and the world around them.
An Emrudin appears much like a tall, albino human. Their skin and hair are completely white, and their eyes are either white, grey or light blue. Most Emrudin stand over 6 feet tall. Their heads appear slightly large for their bodies, and their eyes appear a bit to large for their faces. Their hands each have 6 long thin fingers.

Emrudin racial traits:

Medium size: As medium creatures Emrudin have no bonuses or penalties due to size. Base land speed is 30 feet.

Low-light vision: Emrudin can see twice as well as humans in starlight, moonlight and other conditions of poor lighting.

Emrudin receive a +2 bonus to all saving throws against spells and spell like abilities. The Emrudin have studied magic for ages, and learned to defend against it

Emrudin cast Divination spells at +1 caster level.

Knowledge Affinity: at 1st level an Emrudin choose two knowledge skills. These skills are always considered class skills for that character.

Spell Like Abilities: An Emrudin with an Charisma score of 10 or higher may use the following spell like abilities once per day: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Read Magic. Caster level is 1 or the characters level, whichever is higher. Saving throw DCs are 10+ Int modifier.

Skills: Due to their desire to remain isolated, the Emrudin have learned to move about undetected. They receive a +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks. Their intense mental training also grants them a +2 bonus to Concentration checks

Abilities: Emrudin are highly intelligent, but they do not engage in physical pursuits, so their strength is less than that of most races. They receive a +2 racial bonus to Intelligence and suffer a -2 racial penalty to Strength.

Favored Class: Wizard



The Emrudin Loreseeker

Requirements:
Skills: any 3 Knowledge skills, 10 ranks in each, Spellcraft 10 ranks
Feats: Skill Focus (Knowledge) [any two]
Spells: Ability to cast 4th level Arcane spells, including at least 7 divinations.
Race: Emrudin
Hit Die: d4

Class Skills: The Emrudin Loreseeker’s class skills, and the key ability for each skill are: Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int) and Use Magic Device (Cha)

Skill points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the Emrudin Loreseeker prestige class.

Weapon and armor proficiency: The Emrudin Loreseeker gains no new proficiencies with any weapons or armor.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new Emrudin Loreseeker level is gained (Except for 4th and 7th level), the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of Emrudin Loreseeker to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.


1st level: Minor Lore: at 1st level, the Emrudin Loreseeker receives a +2 competence bonus to checks with any 2 Knowledge skills of his choice, and to all Spellcraft checks.


2nd level: Spell Lore: at 2nd level, the Loreseeker gains an increased aptitude for learning spells. If the Loreseeker uses a spellbook, whenever he gains a level he adds 3 spells to his spellbook instead of 2. If he doesn’t use a spellbook, then whenever he gains a level, he gains 1 additional spell known, which must be 2 levels lower than the highest level spell he can cast.

3rd level: Lesser Lore: at 3rd level, the Emrudin Loreseeker has steeped himself in research so deeply that he has a chance to know even obscure or unusual information. This ability works just like Bardic Knowledge, except the Loreseeker adds his Intelligence bonus and his Loreseeker level to the check.

4th level: Object Lore: At 4th level, the Loreseeker gains the ability to reveal the secrets of magical objects. This ability functions identically to an Identify spell and may be used a number of times per day equal to the Loreseeker’s Intelligence bonus.

5th level: Amassed Knowledge: At 5th level, the Loreseeker expands his studies into areas he had previously not explored. He gains 4 ranks in any 3 Knowledge skills that he previously had no ranks in.

6th level: Lore: at 6th level, the Loreseeker learns to uncover forgotten lore about a person, place or thing. He may use legend lore once per day per 3 class levels.

7th level: Spell Power Lore: at 7th level, the Loreseeker learns to increase the potency of his spells. The saving throw DC for all spells cast by the Loreseeker increase by +1

8th level: Greater Lore: at 8th level, the Loreseeker is able to reveal the secrets of spells upon a person, place, or thing. He may use analyze Dweomer once per day per 3 class levels.

10th level: Supreme Lore: At 10th level, the Loreseeker’s knowledge has empowered him to see the truth of things. He may use True Seeing once per day per 3 class levels.

The Emrudin Loreseeker

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Special Spellcasting
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Minor Lore +1 level of existing class
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Spell Lore +1 level of existing class
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Lesser Lore +1 level of existing class
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Object Lore
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Amassed Knowledge +1 level of existing class
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Lore +1 level of existing class
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 Spell Power Lore
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Greater Lore +1 level of existing class
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 --- +1 level of existing class
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Supreme Lore +1level of existing class
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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I've followed your other races, but haven't commented yet. I hope to get around to commenting on them all, as I too would like races with bonuses to mental stats.

But first, I should say that I'm not comforable with a race that is clearly the best at something and letting role-playing work it out. This is my bias, so take it for what it is worth.

For example the Emrudin have +2 INT, so there should be a good "crunchy" reason for someone who plays a wizard to not play an Emrudin. Wizards are about the only class that would bump its INT up in favor of all other stats, so I'd look at that. The Emrudin have -2 STR. Well, most wizards I know could care less about STR. That right there says every wizard is going to look at Emrudin.

Wizards could be human for an extra feat and skill points, but I'd say +2 INT is already better than that extra feat and overrides the skill points. If your race is better than human, it might need some tweaking.

Merlion said:
Low-light vision: Emrudin can see twice as well as humans in starlight, moonlight and other conditions of poor lighting.

This doesn't seem necessary to me and makes the Emruidn as much better than humans and too much like elves. I'd cut it for something else.

Emrudin cast Divination spells at +1 caster level.

Seems okay, but I think it would apply more to a +WIS race. Just me maybe. But I don't think this overloads the race much.

Knowledge Affinity: at 1st level an Emrudin choose two knowledge skills. These skills are always considered class skills for that character.

This I like a lot because it does the Emrudin wizard no good, but encourages Emrudin fighters (not a lot, but a little) and other wierd stuff.

Spell Like Abilities: An Emrudin with an Intelligence score of 10 or higher may use the following spell like abilities once per day: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Read Magic. Caster level is 1 or the characters level, whichever is higher. Saving throw DCs are 10+ Int modifier.

Pretty good. I'd leave off comprehend languages though. Comprehend Languages is very situational and so most sorcerers won't know it and most wizards won't carry it around. Also having comprehend languages available at will (even once per day) seriously removes the need for language skills. I'd go with just Detect Magic and Read Magic. Perhaps another ... Magic cantrip if you can find one.

And INT >= 10 isn't much of a restriction for Emrudin with +2 INT (with point buy, I'll always happen). Since these are spell-like abilities, go with CHA >=10.

Skills: Emrudin receive a +2 racial bonus to Spellcraft, and to any two Knowledge Skills of the player’s choice.

This I don't like. Giving the best wizard race a bonus to wizardly things makes them even better at being the best wizard. Plus they are getting +2 to three INT skills that they already are getting +1 to from the +2 INT. Try some other skills, non-wizard, non-int skills, or skip skill entirely.

Favored Class: Wizard

Well, since they are the best race at Wizard, might as well make Wizard the favored class. This further removes human as a choice because a Emrudin Wizard/Whatever is just as good as a human Wizard/Whatever. But I don't know what other class you would give them as favored.

My advice:
I'd go for +2 INT, -2 CON. This makes being a Emrudin wizard a tough call. Plus a 6' tall race with a STR penalty is hard to imagine. These albinos are just as strong as humans, but frail.
Expand knowledge affinity to say all knowledge skills are always class skills.
Give out Detect Magic 1/day and Read Magic 1/day if CHA >= 10.
Give out +2 Concentration (offset -2 CON penalty), +2 Move Silently and +2 Hide (they've learned to be stealthy)
Favored class: Wizard.
That's pretty a weak race, so I'd be tempted to add back in the Low Light Vision, although that might be too much like elves.
So I'd add back in "cast divination spells at +1 caster level" and maybe give them +1 on all saves versus magic. Or maybe just the saves thing. That is useful to all classes.

Now the Emrudin are okay at other pursuits than wizard, but they are best at the hidden wizardly thing your background shows.
 

Ok first right off the bat i want to say I really apreciate your feedback, its polite, and detailed, and you actualy give extensive reasons for your opnions. However, I do disagree on numerous points, but i dont want you to take my responses negatively, because they are not meant so.


But first, I should say that I'm not comforable with a race that is clearly the best at something and letting role-playing work it out. This is my bias, so take it for what it is worth.

This is the first disagreement. I, obviously, have no problem with it. And indeed, 2 our of 3 of thease races I would disgaree that they are "the best" for any given thing. I can see it with thease guys tho.


This doesn't seem necessary to me and makes the Emruidn as much better than humans and too much like elves. I'd cut it for something else

Every race in the PH gets either low light, or darkvision, save humans and halflings. I'm mostly just following trend.


This I like a lot because it does the Emrudin wizard no good, but encourages Emrudin fighters (not a lot, but a little) and other wierd stuff.

Yes. Really, I can see there being a goodly contigent of knowledgble Rogues amongest the Emrudin.


Pretty good. I'd leave off comprehend languages though. Comprehend Languages is very situational and so most sorcerers won't know it and most wizards won't carry it around. Also having comprehend languages available at will (even once per day) seriously removes the need for language skills. I'd go with just Detect Magic and Read Magic. Perhaps another ... Magic cantrip if you can find one.

I added comprehend langauges because its knowledge-gaining related. I couldnt really come up with another fitting cantrip or 1st level divination spell. I dont really think it detracts that much from langauges as it doesnt allow 2 way communication..and its only once a day and short duration.


This I don't like. Giving the best wizard race a bonus to wizardly things makes them even better at being the best wizard. Plus they are getting +2 to three INT skills that they already are getting +1 to from the +2 INT. Try some other skills, non-wizard, non-int skills, or skip skill entirely.

Well, again pretty much every race gets 2 or 3 skill bonuses, and I dont know any logical reason for them to have bonuses to any other skills. Well, Gather Information would perhaps make some sense, and/or Decipher Script. You later idea of Concentration isnt bad either. However from a flavour/RP perspective, it really makes a lot more sense for them to have bonuses to knowledge skills, so this is something I will have to think about.


I'd go for +2 INT, -2 CON. This makes being a Emrudin wizard a tough call. Plus a 6' tall race with a STR penalty is hard to imagine. These albinos are just as strong as humans, but frail.

These 3 races have the ability score adjustments they do for very specfic reasons. Well, for a very specfic reason. You've got the 3 mind stats, and the 3 body stats. I see them in a sort of oposing fashion...Str/Int Wis/Dex Cha/Con. thats why thease races have the adjustments they do. And since I am pretty sure they are mechanicaly balanced in this respect, I am unlikely to change it.

Expand knowledge affinity to say all knowledge skills are always class skills

I would not object to this.


Give out +2 Concentration (offset -2 CON penalty), +2 Move Silently and +2 Hide (they've learned to be stealthy)

No on the stealth..thats not the right image for them. But I may replace the Spellcraft bonus with a Concentration bonus.

So I'd add back in "cast divination spells at +1 caster level" and maybe give them +1 on all saves versus magic. Or maybe just the saves thing. That is useful to all classes.

I like the idea of the +1 save versus magic very much, but i like the divination thing too that one is tough.
 

I changed my mind about the skills thing after reading the background again. I added a spell save bonus identical to a Dwarves...this race was really kind of lacking so I think its fine.
I think the skill bonuses and save bonus strongly encrouage Emrudin Rogues.
 

I did read this race, and the concept is really nice.

Then, I did read the comment on why play a human or elven wizard than this one? I also agree there should be something to balance, and for me -2 to Con rather than to Strength is the way to go. That way PCs have more power as mages, but they have less hit-points. Well, I know you don't want to change that, but I wanted to say anyway. I think it would be justified for they live secluded in their hidden cities, are an ancient race which remain isolated inside fortresses for ages. I mean, this justify for people with a declining health. The moreso if they live through the use of perpetual magic rather than exercising, performing hard labor, living outside, etc.
 

I dont really see how that'd reduce their atractiveness as wizards. People play Elven wizards and elves have a Dex bonus and a Con penalty.
 

Merlion said:
I dont really see how that'd reduce their atractiveness as wizards. People play Elven wizards and elves have a Dex bonus and a Con penalty.

Wizards need at most three things to be successful. They need INT for more spells and higher DCs, they need DEX to go first with spells and to help with their lack of armor, and they need CON because of their low hit points.

So why does the Elf wizard work, because they are trading a valuable resource (CON) for another valuable resource (DEX). Human wizards are viable because they don't do this swap and end up with an extra feat and more skill points. True power-gamers play gnomes and halflings for wizards becaues they basically get the +CON or +DEX almost for free: -STR means nothing to a wizard, smaller weapons sizes are likewise irrelevant, and the slower movement rate can be made up for with spells. Dwarves also work well for wizards, but also suffer from slower movement.

If you introduce a +INT,-STR race at LA +0, they will compete with gnomes and halflings in the power-game arena, without the movement penalties and without the weapon size penalties. So even more reason to pick them. And because +2 INT gives extra skill points, the human is less attractive because the same base score will generate the same skill points. And the other stuff the race gets is more than equal to a feat.

If the race was +INT,-CON, the choice would be more interesting: go human/halfling for more hit points or dwarf/gnome for even more; go elf for dex instead of int.

Basically, I'm not sure if a +INT, -STR race can be balanced at LA +0.

AU has loresong faean, a +INT,-STR race and a small one at that. Everyone who wants to play a magister (the wizard of AU) wants to play a loresong because frankly they are just better magisters than everyone else. Playing any other race as a magister is basically a penalty most people don't want to absorb. Akin to the reason you see precious few half-orc wizards in regular D&D: it might be cool, but the stats are too much against you.
 

Basically, I'm not sure if a +INT, -STR race can be balanced at LA +0.

See this is where we disagree. I dont see all that stuff as a point of balance. theres already superior and inferior class/race choices in existence, so I dont see it as a balance issue.
They make good wizards or bards or rogue, and they make crappy melee types. Seems fine to me.
 

AU has loresong faean, a +INT,-STR race and a small one at that. Everyone who wants to play a magister (the wizard of AU) wants to play a loresong because frankly they are just better magisters than everyone else.

thats because Monte Cook feels as I do. Design what you like, and balance it overall, and if people choose to only ever play a given class as a single race, its their problem, if problem it be.
 

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