Wolf Order Elite PRC feedback?

Ok I've been working on this PRC at work during breaks and stuff more of an idea i've had for some time then a serious attempt to make a class. I would just like some feed back on it - too powerful? how can I change it? Not powerful enough? - what can i do to fix it? Basically i'm looking for any flaws that anyone might see. Personally i think its a little to powerful but it captures the idea i'm looking for pretty well. Anyway, let me know thanks!

Oh, one last thing - anywhere it has a +1/day on the table it is referncing the extra stunning fist!


Wolf Order Elite

Hit Dice: d6

Requirements:
In order to qualify for the Wolf Order Elite a character must fulfill the following criteria.

BAB: +6 or higher
Ability: Dex (15+), Wis (15+)
Feat: Stunning Fist

Class Skills
The Wolf order Elite’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb(Str), Concentration (Con), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str) and Tumble (Dex)

Skill points at each level: 3+Int modifier.


Lv. BAB Fort. Ref. Will Special Stun. Fist
1 +1 0 2 2 Chosen weapon (+1) +1/day

2 +2 0 3 3 Focused strike, Bonus Feat (Rapid Stun)

3 +3 1 3 3 Unarmored speed (+5ft) +1/day
4 +4 1 4 4

5 +5 1 4 4 Chosen weapon (+2) +1/day

6 +6 2 5 5 Bonus Feat, Unarmored speed (+5ft)

7 +7 2 5 5 Flawless Intuition +1/day

8 +8 2 6 6 Overwhelm

9 +9 3 6 6 Chosen weapon (+3), Unarmored speed (+5ft) +1/day

10 +10 3 7 7 Bonus Feat



Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
The Wolf Order Elite is proficient with all simple and monk weapons. The Wolf Order Elite is not proficient with any armor or shields.



Additional Stunning Fist
The Wolf Order Elite strives to perfect his soul and, in doing so, has learned to access his soul’s hidden energies to perform incredible feats.

For the purpose of the stunning fist feat the Wolf Order Elite continues to gain stunning fist attempts, per day, equal to one half of his level. In addition to that the Wolf Order Elite gains an additional stunning fist every other level starting with the first.

Increased unarmored speed
A large portion of the Wolf Order Elite’s training is focused on speed and precision. Because of the training the Wolf Order Elite has learned to maneuver through nearly any situation at a faster pace.

At 3rd, 6th and 9th levels the Wolf Order Elite gains an additional 5ft to his movement speed. This additional movement speed is not considered a monks unarmored speed for the purpose of feats or special abilities. If at any time the character wears any armor or shields or carries more then a light load he loses this movement bonus.

Bonus Feat
Starting at 2rd level the character gains the Rapid Stun feat for free regardless of the feats requirements. The character then gains an additional feat of his choice at 6th and 10th, which he may choose, from the general or Ki feats list. A feat from another list may be chosen if the DM permits it.

Chosen Weapon
The Wolf Order Elite has become so in tune and proficient with a certain weapon type that he can use it as another appendage and can now channel his ki energies through it or use it to block incoming attacks.

At first level the Wolf Order Elite may choose a specific simple or monk weapon that will become his “chosen weapon.” Any time the Wolf Order Elite is using the chosen weapon type he gains a bonus to his attack and AC Deflection modifier. This bonus starts out as a +1 at first level and is increased by 1 every four levels thereafter. If the chosen weapon type is not equipped, dropped or broken all such bonuses are negated. In addition to the bonuses the character, when using the chosen weapon, may use any Ki abilities that require the use of a stunning fist through his weapon, if applicable. All restrictions or variations that apply to stunning fist still apply when used through the chosen weapon. The AC modifier does not stack with any other deflection modifier regardless of its origin.

Focused Strike
By giving up one of his stunning attacks for the day the Wolf Order Elite may make an attack in which his target does not gain any dodge or dexterity modifiers to his AC. This effect may only be used as many times as the character may use a stunning fist in a round.

Flawless Instinct
Once per round when the Wolf Order Elite is allowed to make an attack of opportunity; he may instead take a full attack action on the target by giving up one of his stunning fist attacks for the day. This action may only be used to perform an attack and is subject to any restrictions that apply to attacks of opportunity. This ability may only be used once per round regardless of the number of times the character may be able to perform attacks of opportunity.

Overwhelm
A number of times a day equal to his wisdom modifier the Wolf Order Elite may perform a two full round actions in a single given round. The player must declare overwhelm at the beginning of his turn. The affect lasts for only one round and the actions may be used as any standard action.

Hrm. Perhaps this idea was too ridiculous? Or maybe i'm just impatient i'm not to sure . Any ideas or complaints from anyone?

Can anyone give any feed back?

Tormal said:

Requirements:
In order to qualify for the Wolf Order Elite a character must fulfill the following criteria.
BAB: +6 or higher
Ability: Dex (15+), Wis (15+)
Feat: Stunning Fist

Skill points at each level: 3+Int modifier.

Chosen Weapon
Any time the Wolf Order Elite is using the chosen weapon type he gains a bonus to his attack and AC Deflection modifier.

Focused Strike
By giving up one of his stunning attacks for the day the Wolf Order Elite may make an attack in which his target does not gain any dodge or dexterity modifiers to his AC. This effect may only be used as many times as the character may use a stunning fist in a round.

Flawless Instinct

Overwhelm
A number of times a day equal to his wisdom modifier the Wolf Order Elite may perform a two full round actions in a single given round. The player must declare overwhelm at the beginning of his turn. The affect lasts for only one round and the actions may be used as any standard action.

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Some background on this Order, please. What do they do? Where do they come from? What is their purpose in your game world?

OK, mechanics, first of all, stats are never a good choice for a requirement for a PrC, skills and feats are always better. And these prereqs are really flavorless, they basically say, "You, Monk, take this prestige class, no extra work required."

I would add some skill requirements, Concentration perhaps to represent their mental discipline? And feats, like Endurance to represent their physical conditioning.
Perhaps require them to have a base movement of 40 ft (30 ft for small characters). An alignment restriction maybe, monks need to be Lawful . . .

Why 3 + Int for Skills? It is almost always an even number.

Why deflection bonus for their Chosen Weapon ability, would not a Shield bonus make more sense?

Why does focused strike ignore Dex and Dodge bonuses? I would see it as finding the weak spot in armor myself. And if it does ignore Dex bonuses, can you use any Sneak Attack damage you have with it? I would restrict it to: only as part of a Full Attack action and only once per round.

Flawless Instinct, I like the idea but I am not sure how balanced it is.

Overwhelm really should be their 10th lvl ability as it is by far the best ability they have. It also need to be limited by not stacking with haste or any other ability that improves movement or number of attacks.

Since this really is a Monk PrC, I would suggest having them continues to gain Monk movement bonuses and AC as they progress (which would allow you to remove the Unarmored Speed ability and replace it with another minor ability).

And there you go, feedback.

Knight-of-Roses said:

Some background on this Order, please. What do they do? Where do they come from? What is their purpose in your game world?

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Yea i'm still working on this portion of the class. I'll post it when I have it completed Like I said it's in between breaks and lunches at work when I get to work on it. I don't have much time otherwise.

OK, mechanics, first of all, stats are never a good choice for a requirement for a PrC, skills and feats are always better. And these prereqs are really flavorless, they basically say, "You, Monk, take this prestige class, no extra work required."

Click to expand...

Ok, that certainly makes sense I could drive it away from the attributes and more towards the skills and feats. However, this really wasn't geared towards the monk rather then the Martial Artist class i'm playing. Anywho, I'll look at revising it.

I would add some skill requirements, Concentration perhaps to represent their mental discipline? And feats, like Endurance to represent their physical conditioning.
Perhaps require them to have a base movement of 40 ft (30 ft for small characters). An alignment restriction maybe, monks need to be Lawful . . .

Click to expand...

Again i'll think about revising it.

Why 3 + Int for Skills? It is almost always an even number.

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I just figured 2 was a bit to low and I felt that 4 was too high. I'll probably change this anyway - it was a portion i was thinking about changing already.

Why deflection bonus for their Chosen Weapon ability, would not a Shield bonus make more sense?

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Yeah, you're probably right. The idea I was looking for was more so that the character was "deflecting" his incoming attacks. I suppose that would be more of an armor class then anything though.

Why does focused strike ignore Dex and Dodge bonuses? I would see it as finding the weak spot in armor myself. And if it does ignore Dex bonuses, can you use any Sneak Attack damage you have with it? I would restrict it to: only as part of a Full Attack action and only once per round.

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Well the idea behind this ability was really a feat found in "beyond monks" that has the same effect. I will add those restrictions at some point.

Flawless Instinct, I like the idea but I am not sure how balanced it is.

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I suppose it depends on the game. I have a DM that takes special care not to give AoO at any time. I'll look at maybe lowering the number of times a day it can be used.

Overwhelm really should be their 10th lvl ability as it is by far the best ability they have. It also need to be limited by not stacking with haste or any other ability that improves movement or number of attacks.

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Yea it was i'm not to sure what happened. It was supposed to be at 10th level. I'll set those restrictions on the ability as well.



Anyway thanks for the feedback it was certainly what i was looking for. I'll look it over more and check out what I can do to fix it. If anyone else has any ideas i would certainly appreciate them. Thanks!

Tormal said:

I suppose it depends on the game. I have a DM that takes special care not to give AoO at any time. I'll look at maybe lowering the number of times a day it can be used.

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Hey now! I do not take special care to avoid AOO's. Some opponents do, others do not. Admittedly, you don't often get to use AOO's because the opponents most likely to be clueless about AO's are also the ones that you often mop up in droves. Smart opponents avoid AOO's, unless there is a reason to incur one.

Ok, that certainly makes sense I could drive it away from the attributes and more towards the skills and feats. However, this really wasn't geared towards the monk rather then the Martial Artist class i'm playing. Anywho, I'll look at revising it.

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Yes, remove the attribute requirements. Don't forget the RP requirements. Look for feat/skill requirements that make sense for the PrC and fit with the RP feel.

I just figured 2 was a bit to low and I felt that 4 was too high. I'll probably change this anyway - it was a portion i was thinking about changing already.

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Odd skill points are harder to justify. Choose 2 or 4 and stick with it.

While I can see some raw potential with the PrC, it is still very flavorless. I suggest changing the name name to whatever it was that you had your clan name set to. Dolen F'ar? Was that close? I would also suggest specifying the chosen weapon as the signature weapon for the order. Or, providing a very tight list of weapons that the order uses. While it is good to have a PrC that is broad enough for different classes to attain, you also need to remember that the P is supposed to stand for Prestige. Create a specific combat style. Style can include specific movement or defensive options, not just attack. I think if you seriously think about nifty flavor, a lot of things will begin to become self-evident. Right now, the style for the Wolf Order Elite doesn't come across as Elite, it comes across as scattered.