Warrior-Knight core class

I've been working on a new core class, Warrior-Knight, based off the Fighter with some elements of the old Cavalier class. It's designed to address a few problems with the Fighter class used in this role, and encourage adherence to a chivalric code. What do you think of it in mechanical balance terms? Weaker or stronger than Fighter?

edit: _current_ (and likely final) version is as follows:

Warrior-Knight Character Class

BAB: 1/1 Good Saves: Fort
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills: Climb, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Swim, Diplomacy, Ride, Spot, and Knowledge (nobility & royalty).
Skill Points/Level: 4 + Int
Weapon & Armour Proficiency: all armour & shields, all simple & martial melee weapons. Knights are also proficient in the short bow (typically used to hunt deer), but do not receive proficiency in any other missile weapons.
Starting Equipment: assigned by GM, usually chainmail or chain shirt, lance, any sword, any 1 of: mace, warhammer, military pick or morningstar; light warhorse; plus 2d6 gp cash. Mundane equipment like torches is usually freely available.

Code of Honour: all true Knights are constrained by their Chivalric Code to live and die with Honour. Those who violate their Code and do not atone may not advance further in the Knight class, and lose the Brave & Iron Willed class benefits.

Level/Abilities
1st - Heals Well (Ex): once after each battle in which he has been wounded, a Warrior-Knight who has 1 or more hp remaining and who receives within 1 hour a successful DC 15 heal check, taking 10 minutes, from himself or from another, can restore hp equal to [his class level + his CON bonus] (min 1 hp). This cannot restore more hp than were lost in that battle. Retries on failed rolls are allowed, but hp can be restored only once per battle, and only to knights with positive hp totals.
1st - Brave (Ex): Knights save at +4 vs Fear effects. This is a morale bonus.
2nd - Missile defense (Ex): a Knight using a shield, and not flatfooted, gets a +2 AC cover bonus vs all missile attacks.
4th - Strong Willed (Ex): a Knight gains +2 bonus to Will saves. This stacks with the Iron Will feat.

A Knight who uses a missile weapon in battle other than in extremis* or otherwise violates his Code always loses the benefits of the Brave & Strong Willed abilities for 1 week or longer, per DM's discretion. Using a bow for hunting harmless game animals such as deer (where there is no threat to the knight's life), rather than in battle, is not a Code violation. Dangerous game animals such as wild boar must be hunted with melee weapons such as the boar lance.

*Knights are allowed to use missile weapons in battle against varlets they absolutely _can't reach_ - say a flying Wizard - but use is discouraged as unmanly.

5th+: Fighter Bonus feats: a Knight of 5th level and higher gains bonus feats from the Fighter feat list every two levels, at following levels: 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, 19th.

For the purpose of gaining Fighter-only Feats, a Warrior-Knight counts as a Fighter 3 levels below their Knight level, ie they are eligible for Weapon Specialisation at 7th level, for Greater Weapon Specialisation at 15th level, and for Epic Fighter feats at 24th level.

Multiclassing: a Knight must usually be noble-born and trained from a young age, so this class may normally only be taken at 1st level. Multiclassing out if this class is at the GM's discretion; typical classes that might be combined with Warrior Knight include Fighter, Paladin, and possibly Ranger. Some GMs may wish to allow Knight-Clerics. The activities of Knight-Rogues and Knight-Wizards or Knight-Sorcerers will typically violate the Knight's Code.

It's a good start. There's actually a discussion on the Andy Collins boards about doing a good-aligned knight in place of the paladin, but it stalled a couple days ago. I was thinking of doing something along these lines, but no so cavalier-ish (i.e., they can use missile weapons, and they don't get starting gear assigned).

I consider it fine, but it would make the Fighter obselete except for a few folks with particular concepts or multiclass combinations. Fighters are weak overall (useful but only in direct combat, and then not even so much as an artillerist- err, magic-user that is). I'd suggest you give regular Fighters 4 skill points per level also, so players of Fighters don't feel too cheated compared to players of your Warrior-Knight (why not just call them cavaliers, chevaliers, knights, or knights-errant or the like, by the way?).

Hi - thanks for feedback!

Arkhandus - you don't think the Knight's loss of 2 Fighter feats (at 1st & 2nd level) and the late access to Weapon Spec and Gtr Weapon Spec (at 8th & 12th) compensates for the Knight's 4 skill points/level?

I'm using Warrior-Knight as the full title, since anyone who's knighted can be a knight; there's already an official Cavalier PrC, and anyway "Cavalier" makes me think of the English Civil War, floppy hats, feathers and lace pantaloons.

Kerrick - the way every N/PC in D&D carries a missile weapon kinda annoys me, so I thought I'd stick with the Cavalier-style restriction. Re gear, I could just say "250 gp gear", or whatever, but it's more realistic for a feudal setting if the Knight starts with assigned high-value gear gifted by his lord or family.

Someone else told me that no one would bother with this class after 3rd level (it'd be better to multiclass into Fighter for the Fort save & earlier Weapon Spec, at 3+4 = 7th) so I get the feeling I'm getting it about right...

Ahh, right, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe they would multiclass to Fighter after 3rd or 4th, but since their bonus feats treat them as a Fighter of 4 levels lower, that wouldn't really matter now would it? They'd still have to wait until 8th-level for Weapon Specialization (well, 7th if they multiclassed after 3rd), etc. In my post, I was just saying that few people would want to play the Fighter if they lacked the special abilities and extra skills of the Warrior-Knight, and they'd feel cheated if they did. Unless they were going for an archer build or were more barbarian than knight in concept. That's why I said to bump the Fighter's skill points up, even if they don't get any new class skills.

The Healing ability seems a little powerful. Lets say at 10th level , they could have a 13 heal, with any wisdom bonus and probably a decent CON bonus, your base healing would be 10+WIS+CON+d20-2, say they take 10, thats 20+WIS(Probably low)+CON(Probably +4 or better) - 2. Thats about as good as Cure Critical 4d8+level, which is a 4th level spell. I think that is too powerful.

How is this guy not just flat out better than a fighter? 2 extra skill points per level, effective iron will (which stacks with actual iron will), gets an automatic +4 AC against missile attacks, gets +4 vs. fear.... and how exactly do you explain that healing ability?
No way. Don't cop out levels 4-20 by copying the fighter.... make them unique or why bother?

-The Souljourner

The class is way too good. Lets look at those first three levels


-Heals Well: Not bad at lower levels but abusable at higher levels because of the equation (ammount by which check was made + level + Con bonus) so a 12 level caviler who takes ten on the check will recover 10 + 12 + Con = 22 + Con HP. That's like a free Cure Serious wounds every combat. Making the equation (level + Con mod) HP would be a much better choice IMO. Do that and I would call it a minor power overall, worth .25 - .5 of a feat.

-Brave: worth a feat. At worst worth .75 of a feat since it doesnt' kick in every combat but I think a full feat is closer to the mark.

-Missle Defence: worth a feat no question about it. I mean that, I've literally seen feats published that are this.

-Iron Willed: this is a feat (one not normally on the fighter bonus list). It might even be 1.25 feats because of its ability to stack with normal Iron Will.

The class also gets 42 extra skill points vs the fighter and a slightly better list.


In exchange the class gives up
-two bonus feats
-slower aquisition of Wepon Spec/Greater Weapon Spec
-use of missle weapons (which is itself somewhat offset by the Missle Defence ability)


The loss of missle weapons is really minor seeing as how the class is geared towards dedicated melee tanks anyway. If we asume for a moment that the slowed aquisition of Weapon Spec offsets the extra skillpoints (a dubious proposition I think) then we are still left with the question of how the loss of two freely selected bonus feats is supposed to offset three bonus feats that the fighter couldn't access even if he wanted to? :\ If people are saying to you that they would take three levels of the class and leave I wouldnt' be taking it as proof that the class is balanced compared to the fighter but as proof that it is badly front-loaded!

My suggestion for a balanced class? First make the change to Heals Well I suggested above. Second, space out the bonus feats so that he gets one at 2, 4, and every third level thereafter (total of 7 bonus feats instead of 11). Give him Heals Well and Brave at 1, Missle Defence at 2, and move Iron Willed back to level 6. Finally maybe swap out Intimidate for Sense Motive on the skill list or do something else minor to jazz up the skill list a bit and call it a day.

Hope that that helps.

You might want to check out the following...

http://www.greenronin.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?prodid=1307

Green Ronin's Cavalier's Handbook. I am a fan of their Master Class series. The book will likely prove to have everything you are looking for.

"The Cavalier's Handbook heralds the return of classic chivalric warrior of 1st edition, a class relegated to a mere footnote in the subsequent editions of the world's most popular roleplaying game. More than just a mounted warrior, the cavalier represents excellence in arms, unsurpassed horsemanship, and a devotion to the code of chivalry. The Cavalier's Handbook includes not only a core class for this knight par excellence, but also prestige classes like holy crusader and knight of infamy, rules for social class and family history, details on tournaments and rules for jousting, over 40 new feats, rules for retainers and steeds, and a chapter on knightly orders that includes rules for creating your own chivalric organizations. Blackguards beware! The cavalier is back!"