Templar base class (now less simple)

brehobit

Explorer
Edit:
See below for the completed class.

Is the following balanced?

Templar
Take a paladin, remove all special abilities. Use Fighter skill list plus knowledge (religion). Add back spell casting, but use the bard chart for spell advancement (paladin spell list with cleric cantrip list) and give +1 caster level per level of advancement. Spells are divine with Wisdom as the magic stat. So a divine spontanous caster.

You get a magical knight of Goodness. Seems balanced against the paladin, but strong when compared to the fighter. Was considering moving HD to d8 if needed.

Thoughts?
 
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Templar
Take a paladin, remove all special abilities. Use Fighter skill list plus knowledge (religion). Add back spell casting, but use the bard chart for spell advancement (paladin spell list with cleric cantrip list) and give +1 caster level per level of advancement. Spells are divine with Wisdom as the magic stat. So a divine spontanous caster.

1) The bard gets up to 6th level spells, the paladin only 4th. Are you just dropping the 5th and 6th level spells that a bard gets? Or are you going to make up some 5th and 6th level spells for the paladin to choose? Or are you assuming that someone playing a templar will take some metamagic feats?

2) The bard and the cleric both get good Will saves, and I assume it has something to do with being a caster. I'd give the templar the good Will save too, and then ratchet the HD down to d8 like you said.

So, now you basically have a class that's a little better at fighting than the cleric and a little worse at casting spells than the cleric, and that can't turn undead. Okay, it's balanced.

Dave
 

Idea borrowed for Castles & Crusades! :) (Their paladin and ranger classes don't cast spells; I have decided to add new classes as soon as I have their books).
 

Vrecknidj said:
1) The bard gets up to 6th level spells, the paladin only 4th. Are you just dropping the 5th and 6th level spells that a bard gets? Or are you going to make up some 5th and 6th level spells for the paladin to choose? Or are you assuming that someone playing a templar will take some metamagic feats?
Yeah, I thought of that later too (I'm working on a low-level game so it wasn't an issue for me.) I think I'd need a spell list for 5th and 6th, probably mostly borrowed from the cleric

2) The bard and the cleric both get good Will saves, and I assume it has something to do with being a caster. I'd give the templar the good Will save too, and then ratchet the HD down to d8 like you said.
Great minds think alike. I had reached the same conclusion.

So, now you basically have a class that's a little better at fighting than the cleric and a little worse at casting spells than the cleric, and that can't turn undead. Okay, it's balanced.
Yeah, I think so. It does feel a bit weak with the d8 compared to a cleric (basically I you get is the BAB), but I think most folks agree that clerics are on the high-end of power.
 

OK, here is the whole class:

(update 11/07 to add a few powers for balance against newer classes and spell lists, plus it was on the weak side to begin with I think...)


Templars are warrior priests of good. Their spell casting power is greater than that of a Paladin, but poorer than a cleric. Their spells are almost entirely dedicated to enhancing their own combat power, aiding a large group of comrades-in-arms, and defeating evil extra-planer creatures.

Game Rule information

Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a templar can cast, how many spells he can caster per day, and how hard these spells are to resist. Strength plays a major role in their combat abilities.
Alignment: A Templar must be good.
Hit Die: d8
Class skills: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (religion), Ride, and Swim
Skill points: (2+Int modifier)x4 at first level, (2+ Int modifier) at each additional level

Class features
  • Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Templars are proficient in all martial weapons, shields other than a tower shield, and all types of armor.

  • Aura (Ex): A Templar has a Good Aura.

  • Spells: Templars are spontaneous casters and use the Bard charts both for spells per day and spells known. In addition all Templars learn a certain spell per spell-level. This does not count against their spells known from Table 3-5 of the PHB.

  • Holy endurance: A Templar's training is exceptionally harsh. He gains endurance as a bonus feat at first level.

  • Greater summoning: When a Templar of 4th level or higher casts mount, improved mount, or mass mount (see below) as a Templar spell, the mount or mounts gain certain bonuses depending on the level of the Templar. These bonuses make the mounts much harder to destroy but provide only a moderate boost to their offensive abilities. Note: Animals summoned by the various mounts spells act and fight as normal creatures and will generally avoid combat unless successfully directed by a rider using the normal riding rules.

    • Augmented mount: Beginning at 3rd level the mounts gain a +4 enhancement bonus to strength and constitution.

    • Improved mount: Beginning at 6th level the mounts gain a +10' enhancement bonus to movement and the spell has a longer duration as if extended by the metamagic feat.

    • Tough mount: Beginning at 8th level the mounts gain +2 hit points per class level of the Templar.

    • Lucky mount: Beginning at 10th level the mounts gain the improved evasion feat and gain a +2 luck bonus armor class and saving throws.

    • Holy mount: Beginning at 14th level the mounts are treated as if they had "protection from evil" constantly on them. Their natural attacks are considered "good" for purposes of overcoming DR.

    • Tougher mount: Beginning at 16th level the mounts natural armor bonus is improved by +2 and their hit point bonus is changed to +3 per class level of the Templar. Their movement is also improved by an additional +10'.

    • Blessed mount: Beginning at 20th level the mounts may air walk for a total of 20 minutes a day (this may be used as needed, but can't exceed 20 minutes per mount) and also provide their rider with a +10 competence bonus to any ride check made.


  • Holy blessing: Starting at level 12, a templar may invoke the favor of his god at wll. He may cast one of his spells as a swift action once per day. This spell must be one of the following: bless weapon, bless, shield other, improved mount, prayer, or holy sword. At 18th level and above, the Templar may do this twice a day.

A Templar has the BAB of a fighter and the saves of a cleric.


Spell list:
* This spell is known for free by all Templars
+ From BoED
& New spell, see below

0 level
Create Water
Cure minor wounds
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Guidance
Light
Mending
Purify Food and drink
Resistance
Virtue

1st
Bless
Bless Weapon*
Cure Light Wounds
Detect Undead
Disrupt Undead
Divine Favor
Endure Elements
Magic Weapon
Mount
Protection from Evil
Restoration, Lesser
Shield of Faith
True Strike

2nd
Align Weapon (good only)
Augury
Bull’s Strength
Cure Moderate Wounds
Delay Poison
Improved Mount&*
Owl’s Wisdom
Protection from arrows
Remove Paralysis
Resist Energy
Shield Other
Status
Zone of Truth

3rd
Cure Serious Wounds
Discern Lies
Dispel Magic
Magic Circle against Evil
Magic Vestment
Magic Weapon, Greater*
Prayer
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Searing light

4th
Break Enchantment
Cure Critical Wounds
Death Ward
Dismissal
Dispel Evil
Divine Power
Freedom of Movement
Holy Sword*
Mark of Justice+
Mass Mount &
Neutralize poison
Restoration

5th
Call Faithful Servants+
Crown of Flame+
Cure light wounds, mass
Disrupting Weapon
Righteous Might
Spell Resistance
True Seeing
Vanishing Weapon*+

6th
Banishment
Bastion of Good+
Cure moderate wounds, mass
Dispel magic, Greater
Forbiddance
Heal
Hero’s feast
Holy Word*
Restoration, Greater
Undeath to death



Improved Mount
As the mount spell except:
  • remove the material component and add a divine focus
  • May summon a warhorse of any size or war-trained dog which, at the caster's option, may come equipped with chain-shirt barding.
Mass Mount
As the mount spell except:
  • Remove the material component and add a divine focus
  • Casting time is one minute
  • May summon one “point” worth of mounts per caster level. A light horse or pony counts as one point, while a warhorse (light or heavy) or a war-trained dog counts as two. The two-point creatures may, at the caster's option, come equipped with chain-shirt barding.

-- edit spelling
 
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There is supposed to be some kind of uniformity to ability progression. The Greater Summoning feature increases with no standard uniformity so I've taken the liberty to try my hand at making this class have some. See table below.

Code:
[b]            Base                                                                       Spells per Day
Level   Attack Bonus     Save   Save   Save   Special                               0  1  2  3  4  5  6[/b]
  1          +1           +2     +0     +2    Aura of Good, Holy Endurance          2  -  -  -  -  -  -
  2          +2           +3     +0     +3    Greater Summoning (Augment Mount)     3  0  -  -  -  -  -
  3          +3           +3     +1     +3                                          3  1  -  -  -  -  -
  4          +4           +4     +1     +4                                          3  2  0  -  -  -  -
  5          +5           +4     +1     +4    Greater Summoning (Improved Mount)    3  3  1  -  -  -  -
  6         +6/+1         +5     +2     +5                                          3  3  2  -  -  -  -
  7         +7/+2         +5     +2     +5                                          3  3  2  0  -  -  -
  8         +8/+3         +6     +2     +6    Greater Summoning (Tough Mount)       3  3  3  1  -  -  -
  9         +9/+4         +6     +3     +6                                          3  3  3  2  -  -  -
 10         +10/+5        +7     +3     +7                                          3  3  3  2  0  -  -
 11       +11/+6/+1       +7     +3     +7    Greater Summoning (Lucky mount)       3  3  3  3  1  -  -
 12       +12/+7/+2       +8     +4     +8    Holy Blessing 1/Day                   3  3  3  3  2  -  -
 13       +13/+8/+3       +8     +4     +8                                          3  3  3  3  2  0  -
 14       +14/+9/+4       +9     +4     +9    Greater Summoning (Holy Mount)        4  3  3  3  3  1  -
 15       +15/+10/+5      +9     +5     +9                                          4  4  3  3  3  2  -
 16     +16/+11/+6/+1     +10    +5     +10                                         4  4  4  3  3  2  0
 17     +17/+12/+7/+2     +10    +5     +10   Greater Summoning (Tougher Mount)     4  4  4  4  3  3  1
 18     +18/+13/+8/+3     +11    +6     +11   Holy Blessing 2/Day                   4  4  4  4  4  3  2
 19     +19/+14/+9/+4     +11    +6     +11                                         4  4  4  4  4  4  3
 20     +20/+15/+10/+5    +12    +6     +12   Greater Summoning (Blessed Mount)     4  4  4  4  4  4  4
 
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Frukathka said:
There is supposed to be some kind of uniformity to ability progression. The Greater Summoning feature increases with no standard uniformity so I've taken the liberty to try my hand at making this class have some. See table below.
Nice,
I like it. It also works out because the gain in new spell levels doesn't overlap with the Greater Summoning (other than at 2nd level) so the ability gains are spread out quite well.

The only thing your table is missing is the 2nd use of Holy Blessing.

How does the balance feel?

Thanks!

Mark
 

I really really like this.

A paladinesqe character who doesn't have to have a flavor of slavish devotion to law and tradition.

My only complaint is that D8 HD. The only comparable class that I can think of is the Battle Sorcerer and he gets both a bump from d4->d8 AND Rogue BAB. I really like the flavor of the Class, but can a front line class take the punishment with only a D8 HD?
 

brehobit said:
The only thing your table is missing is the 2nd use of Holy Blessing.

How does the balance feel?
Simply overlooked the second use of Holy Blessing. I'll add it in now.

Overall, the class balance seems to be fine.
 

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