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13th Age Discussion: A Love Letter to The Best Parts of D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="gamerdad39" data-source="post: 5944492" data-attributes="member: 6695447"><p>I joined in on the 2nd round of playtesting for 13th Age and basically believe I have found the game I will be running from here on out.</p><p></p><p>Let me give some perspective to that statement. I've been playing RPG's now for about 24 years. I started with the D&D red box set that I got in trade from a friend at school who really didn't know what to do with it. To be honest at the time I didn't really know what the heck to do with it either, but something in it caught my eye. So began a small game with a couple of other friends as we worked to figure this stuff out. By default I ran the game because the set was mine and when we sat down I had learned the most about it. So began my 24 year adventure, which still continues.</p><p></p><p>I "learned" how to play D&D and RPG's with only the books as guidance. So generally we made up a lot of stuff, didn't focus too much on mechanics and just had a great time. Some games were focused and well planned out, others were extremely free form and we played and let the story develop around us based on the PC's actions and my general direction. We never let the rules get in the way of what we wanted to do and we all loved playing that way. </p><p></p><p>Eventually we upgraded to 2nd Edition but kept the same mindset in playing our games. Yes there were more rules and we used them but never allowed ourselves to get bogged down by them. It was still a very free form and very storied game. We (yes both the PC's and I) put the characters through hell and back and had a wonderful time doing it. My players were inventive and always looked for interesting ways to handle any given situation. The way the rules were presented I felt like I could easily handle those situations regardless if there was something covering it in the book.</p><p></p><p>Of course I dabbled in other systems but always found my way back to D&D. There were certainly other compelling systems out there but I just felt at home on my original stomping grounds and enjoy the game more than most others. I dove into 3rd edition D&D and enjoyed it as much as 2nd, though the mechanics did become a little more involved. My more recent group still allowed that "outside the box" feel to the game and we had a great time.</p><p></p><p>Now I'm about to get into an area that is touchy for a lot of people. Let me state that the following is my opinion. I have enough of a history with D&D and playing RPG's to come to my own conclusions. I trust people with different opinions have come to them through their own experiences and feelings. I'm fine with that. I'm not here to argue my views or condemn anyone's either. </p><p></p><p>I've run 4th edition since it released. Initially I was excited and loved the system, but hadn't really seen it in play and was anxious to run it. My players were excited about it too. Some of that "new system" vibe was running strong with me and my group. The first year was pretty good. We were getting adjusted to the system and the significant changes that were made. Uncommon to my gaming history I also got a good stretch were I was on the other side of the table as a player, and that is where my good will for the system started to break down. </p><p></p><p>The mechanics felt like they became paramount in the game. Combat was a full on mini's game and while there was some fun and enjoyment on the tactics side of things, it felt like our imaginations took a back seat. I stepped back a bit and really started looking at the system and realized I didn't like what I saw. It's not that I couldn't do the things that we did before, it's just not as comfortable to do things outside of the mechanics. Round after round of power use became stagnant and boring. The "roles" concepts and character classes seemed to be the same when they were broken down. Any class that fell into the same "role" as others felt the same aside from the fluff surrounding the powers. It just lacked the feel of the play I enjoy.</p><p></p><p>Another area I found difficult was creating my game. Before I would come up with the story and work the rules around my game. It seemed now I needed to take the rules into account when creating my story. Perhaps some of this is my fault. Either way, it just didn't work for me.</p><p></p><p>So then Next was announced and at this point I was excited and somewhat hesitant at the same time. I did not really want to invest another considerable amount of money on a new system and based on the conclusions I came to on 4th I wasn't sure I trusted where the game was going. Overall though I like the design discussions that I've seen and it looks like they are returning to a direction I've liked in the past. But my eyes were wandering and I caught a message board post about 13th Age and signed up for the playtest.</p><p></p><p>I've run four sessions in the second round of the playtest. While running the game I found that the "feel" of the game that was missing for me in 4th was back with a vengeance. My group and I played for 6+ hours in each of those sessions, at least one of them went 8 hours. We haven't played that long in years. We were all so taken up with the free form nature of the game that it just flowed right for us. </p><p></p><p>Issac has already covered a lot of ground about the differences between the systems. All I want to comment on here is that 13th Age is the game for my game group. We loved it. Yes there are some areas where I felt it wasn't perfect and I outlined those in my feedback to the playtest. Spellcasters felt a little odd to us. While non spellcasters maintained parity with each other spellcasters seemed to fall behind on even levels, then would bounce back to parity on odd levels. It didn't feel completely right. Rangers seemed a bit odd as well. At first level you have pretty much picked everything your Ranger could do. Things like attack, hit points and damage increase level to level, but all the features were pretty much defined in level 1.</p><p></p><p>Those were just a couple of things, but nothing overwhelming really stood out to me as a negative or something that I couldn't adjust given some more time. I know this will not be the game for everyone. I can see why someone who loves 4th edition would be put off by this system. 13th Age suits my gaming style more than D&D at this point and I love it. I cannot wait to have the full book in hand and really dive in.</p><p></p><p>I know this was a long rant and my first post. I just haven't had anyone outside of my gaming group to chat with this about and felt I should give a little background to my statements. I can respond with some more detail regarding 13th Age itself if desired.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gamerdad39, post: 5944492, member: 6695447"] I joined in on the 2nd round of playtesting for 13th Age and basically believe I have found the game I will be running from here on out. Let me give some perspective to that statement. I've been playing RPG's now for about 24 years. I started with the D&D red box set that I got in trade from a friend at school who really didn't know what to do with it. To be honest at the time I didn't really know what the heck to do with it either, but something in it caught my eye. So began a small game with a couple of other friends as we worked to figure this stuff out. By default I ran the game because the set was mine and when we sat down I had learned the most about it. So began my 24 year adventure, which still continues. I "learned" how to play D&D and RPG's with only the books as guidance. So generally we made up a lot of stuff, didn't focus too much on mechanics and just had a great time. Some games were focused and well planned out, others were extremely free form and we played and let the story develop around us based on the PC's actions and my general direction. We never let the rules get in the way of what we wanted to do and we all loved playing that way. Eventually we upgraded to 2nd Edition but kept the same mindset in playing our games. Yes there were more rules and we used them but never allowed ourselves to get bogged down by them. It was still a very free form and very storied game. We (yes both the PC's and I) put the characters through hell and back and had a wonderful time doing it. My players were inventive and always looked for interesting ways to handle any given situation. The way the rules were presented I felt like I could easily handle those situations regardless if there was something covering it in the book. Of course I dabbled in other systems but always found my way back to D&D. There were certainly other compelling systems out there but I just felt at home on my original stomping grounds and enjoy the game more than most others. I dove into 3rd edition D&D and enjoyed it as much as 2nd, though the mechanics did become a little more involved. My more recent group still allowed that "outside the box" feel to the game and we had a great time. Now I'm about to get into an area that is touchy for a lot of people. Let me state that the following is my opinion. I have enough of a history with D&D and playing RPG's to come to my own conclusions. I trust people with different opinions have come to them through their own experiences and feelings. I'm fine with that. I'm not here to argue my views or condemn anyone's either. I've run 4th edition since it released. Initially I was excited and loved the system, but hadn't really seen it in play and was anxious to run it. My players were excited about it too. Some of that "new system" vibe was running strong with me and my group. The first year was pretty good. We were getting adjusted to the system and the significant changes that were made. Uncommon to my gaming history I also got a good stretch were I was on the other side of the table as a player, and that is where my good will for the system started to break down. The mechanics felt like they became paramount in the game. Combat was a full on mini's game and while there was some fun and enjoyment on the tactics side of things, it felt like our imaginations took a back seat. I stepped back a bit and really started looking at the system and realized I didn't like what I saw. It's not that I couldn't do the things that we did before, it's just not as comfortable to do things outside of the mechanics. Round after round of power use became stagnant and boring. The "roles" concepts and character classes seemed to be the same when they were broken down. Any class that fell into the same "role" as others felt the same aside from the fluff surrounding the powers. It just lacked the feel of the play I enjoy. Another area I found difficult was creating my game. Before I would come up with the story and work the rules around my game. It seemed now I needed to take the rules into account when creating my story. Perhaps some of this is my fault. Either way, it just didn't work for me. So then Next was announced and at this point I was excited and somewhat hesitant at the same time. I did not really want to invest another considerable amount of money on a new system and based on the conclusions I came to on 4th I wasn't sure I trusted where the game was going. Overall though I like the design discussions that I've seen and it looks like they are returning to a direction I've liked in the past. But my eyes were wandering and I caught a message board post about 13th Age and signed up for the playtest. I've run four sessions in the second round of the playtest. While running the game I found that the "feel" of the game that was missing for me in 4th was back with a vengeance. My group and I played for 6+ hours in each of those sessions, at least one of them went 8 hours. We haven't played that long in years. We were all so taken up with the free form nature of the game that it just flowed right for us. Issac has already covered a lot of ground about the differences between the systems. All I want to comment on here is that 13th Age is the game for my game group. We loved it. Yes there are some areas where I felt it wasn't perfect and I outlined those in my feedback to the playtest. Spellcasters felt a little odd to us. While non spellcasters maintained parity with each other spellcasters seemed to fall behind on even levels, then would bounce back to parity on odd levels. It didn't feel completely right. Rangers seemed a bit odd as well. At first level you have pretty much picked everything your Ranger could do. Things like attack, hit points and damage increase level to level, but all the features were pretty much defined in level 1. Those were just a couple of things, but nothing overwhelming really stood out to me as a negative or something that I couldn't adjust given some more time. I know this will not be the game for everyone. I can see why someone who loves 4th edition would be put off by this system. 13th Age suits my gaming style more than D&D at this point and I love it. I cannot wait to have the full book in hand and really dive in. I know this was a long rant and my first post. I just haven't had anyone outside of my gaming group to chat with this about and felt I should give a little background to my statements. I can respond with some more detail regarding 13th Age itself if desired. [/QUOTE]
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