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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5845829" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>You do realize that I DM'd 1e for almost 15 years right? Further, you do realize that I've essentially written my own gaming system for D20? Back when there was a house rules forum, I was a major participant because well I'm stubborn and arrogant enough to never let any game designer tell me how to play my game except me. I'm the guy who has taken Gygax's statements about all DM's being peers to heart. So exactly who the @#$# do you think is used to being in charge if it isn't me? </p><p></p><p>I don't know how you could be more off base. I'm a Rule Zero sort of DM. Do you have any idea how many threads I've participated in on EnWorld were some bozo has told me I abuse my players, that I'm a control freak, that I'm narcisstic, that I'm sociopathic, etc. because I advocate a DMing style that they think is too authoritarian? And now that I'm not saying what you want to hear, the best come back you can make is, "Your DMing style is too weak"? Seriously? </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Because I deliberately wanted to run a quick one shot, so I choose a tournament module which had no lead up until the dungeon crawl and which I felt would gaurantee a TPK. Most 1st level modules (particularly the ones I own) have comparitively long lead ins. If I'd run B2 we could have easily gotten hung up at the keep for a signficant period. If I'd run U1, most of the session might have been over before they penetrated to the 'sinister secret'. And in any event, I wanted to make sure this was a one off, because if it was part of a continuing story and the players survived then there would have been more desire to finish the story. I'd probably have run Tomb of Horrors, but one of the players had been in Tomb of Horrors before. Additionally, this was a spur of the moment change of plans, so I had to run what I had at hand. And finally, because I knew that 1st level isn't really within the 1e AD&D sweet spot. </p><p></p><p>But this question itself tells me that you don't have a clue. As I said, there was no math burden in running 1e, nor for me was their a rules burden per se. Nor was their a rules burden for the players, because they are used to my DMing style, my requirements that you 'earn' your fortunes, and most of all to my style of DMing encouraging that players do not need to know the rules in order to play. The burden introduced here is that there is no systematic way to determine fortune mechanics after player propositions that don't clearly succeed (or more rarely, clearly fail) and that the modules own attempt at systemization is incomplete, frequently useless, and terribly fiddly. This problem would in many ways be level independent, and to the extent that it is not level independent would present the highest problems in low level modules where players were forced to rely on gritty game interactions like tieing ropes to things, belaying friends, swimming, climbing, and so forth rather than push button fancy absolute power/obstacle removers like simply casting 'Fly' or 'Water Breathing' or 'Polymorph Self'. Since the party was centered around 5th level, the problems with the system were actually highlighted more than they would have been at 13th level. </p><p></p><p>I repeat, NONE of the problems had any thing to do with rules burden either on the DM or the players. The rules themselves aren't the problem. It's the extreme silence of the rules on reutine actions in play, forcing you into either thinking through things to come to fiat ruling or ad hocing some sort of fortune mechanic or alteration/modifier to the rules proposed system. It's not that I couldn't modify things on the fly - "Hmm, ok with him helping, let's say that the chance of drowning this turn is reduced by twice the assistants strength." It's not that I couldn't come up with a fortune mechanic - save versus petrification, roll under your ability, etc. - its that this is a very weak and impotent tool compared to what I've built with 3e. Sure, I can bang out code in Notepad if I really wanted to, but why the heck would I want to? Sure, worst come to worst, I can cut boards by hand, but when you have a power saw its easier to get better results and spend more time achieving the result I want rather than worrying about basic crafting issues.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5845829, member: 4937"] You do realize that I DM'd 1e for almost 15 years right? Further, you do realize that I've essentially written my own gaming system for D20? Back when there was a house rules forum, I was a major participant because well I'm stubborn and arrogant enough to never let any game designer tell me how to play my game except me. I'm the guy who has taken Gygax's statements about all DM's being peers to heart. So exactly who the @#$# do you think is used to being in charge if it isn't me? I don't know how you could be more off base. I'm a Rule Zero sort of DM. Do you have any idea how many threads I've participated in on EnWorld were some bozo has told me I abuse my players, that I'm a control freak, that I'm narcisstic, that I'm sociopathic, etc. because I advocate a DMing style that they think is too authoritarian? And now that I'm not saying what you want to hear, the best come back you can make is, "Your DMing style is too weak"? Seriously? Because I deliberately wanted to run a quick one shot, so I choose a tournament module which had no lead up until the dungeon crawl and which I felt would gaurantee a TPK. Most 1st level modules (particularly the ones I own) have comparitively long lead ins. If I'd run B2 we could have easily gotten hung up at the keep for a signficant period. If I'd run U1, most of the session might have been over before they penetrated to the 'sinister secret'. And in any event, I wanted to make sure this was a one off, because if it was part of a continuing story and the players survived then there would have been more desire to finish the story. I'd probably have run Tomb of Horrors, but one of the players had been in Tomb of Horrors before. Additionally, this was a spur of the moment change of plans, so I had to run what I had at hand. And finally, because I knew that 1st level isn't really within the 1e AD&D sweet spot. But this question itself tells me that you don't have a clue. As I said, there was no math burden in running 1e, nor for me was their a rules burden per se. Nor was their a rules burden for the players, because they are used to my DMing style, my requirements that you 'earn' your fortunes, and most of all to my style of DMing encouraging that players do not need to know the rules in order to play. The burden introduced here is that there is no systematic way to determine fortune mechanics after player propositions that don't clearly succeed (or more rarely, clearly fail) and that the modules own attempt at systemization is incomplete, frequently useless, and terribly fiddly. This problem would in many ways be level independent, and to the extent that it is not level independent would present the highest problems in low level modules where players were forced to rely on gritty game interactions like tieing ropes to things, belaying friends, swimming, climbing, and so forth rather than push button fancy absolute power/obstacle removers like simply casting 'Fly' or 'Water Breathing' or 'Polymorph Self'. Since the party was centered around 5th level, the problems with the system were actually highlighted more than they would have been at 13th level. I repeat, NONE of the problems had any thing to do with rules burden either on the DM or the players. The rules themselves aren't the problem. It's the extreme silence of the rules on reutine actions in play, forcing you into either thinking through things to come to fiat ruling or ad hocing some sort of fortune mechanic or alteration/modifier to the rules proposed system. It's not that I couldn't modify things on the fly - "Hmm, ok with him helping, let's say that the chance of drowning this turn is reduced by twice the assistants strength." It's not that I couldn't come up with a fortune mechanic - save versus petrification, roll under your ability, etc. - its that this is a very weak and impotent tool compared to what I've built with 3e. Sure, I can bang out code in Notepad if I really wanted to, but why the heck would I want to? Sure, worst come to worst, I can cut boards by hand, but when you have a power saw its easier to get better results and spend more time achieving the result I want rather than worrying about basic crafting issues. [/QUOTE]
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