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3.5 breakdown at high levels?
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<blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 4432099" data-attributes="member: 11821"><p>Yep, I started running into all of these in my 3.5 and Arcana Evolved games. AE is gorgeous, but it was particularly bad for a lot of this - especially involving saving throws.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes and Yes. Particularly about how long it takes to prep monsters with spell-like abilities. I got to be pretty expert at copy-pasting from the SRD.</p><p></p><p>The bolded section was especially horrifying in Arcana Evolved, all its promises to the contrary. Although there were fewer save-or-dies, there were tons of save-or-sucks (I hate Resilient Sphere with a burning passion), and AE casters are way better than 3.5 casters at boosting save DCs and crushing spell resistance.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's nice and all. I've been DMing for ... wow, I think about 25 years? ... and DMed 3.x from the time it was released until pretty recently, at levels from 1 to 15. And I'd like to say that I disagree completely. If I am statting mid-to-high-level NPCs or adjusting monsters and I don't have access to (Hero/Monster)Forge, I hate it. Between adjusting hit dice and figuring out how the creature's BAB/Saves are affected; changing sizes and ability scores, and the numerous cascading effects therefrom; possibly adding feats; and changing all the ability save DCs... Yeah, I'm no dummy, but if you find it easy to do without computer aid, you have a <em>way</em> better math brain than I do. Even concentrating on the stuff you think will be needed and ignoring the stuff that probably won't, it's a chore.</p><p></p><p>I am sorry to report that it basically burned me out on 3.5 before 4e was even announced. I think the breaking point for me was when I needed chorrim (think intelligent, militaristic Arcana Evolved giants/ogres/whatever) of various levels to challenge my PCs. I churned through the stat blocks, looked at how much time that took me, and more or less decided there and then that it was time for a game change.</p><p></p><p>I started running SWSE (which is excellent) and WFRP2 (which is even more excellent). I also started up a new low-level 3.5 game, which was also quite enjoyable.</p><p></p><p>I don't find your argument that the best way around the clunkier portions of an otherwise elegant rules set is to basically ignore them (by concentrating on puzzles and political intrigue) compelling. While this is certainly the case, I could be playing any RPG at that point. I like a rules-set to help me and work with me when I'm actually <em>using</em> its mechanics.</p><p></p><p>-O</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Obryn, post: 4432099, member: 11821"] Yep, I started running into all of these in my 3.5 and Arcana Evolved games. AE is gorgeous, but it was particularly bad for a lot of this - especially involving saving throws. Yes and Yes. Particularly about how long it takes to prep monsters with spell-like abilities. I got to be pretty expert at copy-pasting from the SRD. The bolded section was especially horrifying in Arcana Evolved, all its promises to the contrary. Although there were fewer save-or-dies, there were tons of save-or-sucks (I hate Resilient Sphere with a burning passion), and AE casters are way better than 3.5 casters at boosting save DCs and crushing spell resistance. That's nice and all. I've been DMing for ... wow, I think about 25 years? ... and DMed 3.x from the time it was released until pretty recently, at levels from 1 to 15. And I'd like to say that I disagree completely. If I am statting mid-to-high-level NPCs or adjusting monsters and I don't have access to (Hero/Monster)Forge, I hate it. Between adjusting hit dice and figuring out how the creature's BAB/Saves are affected; changing sizes and ability scores, and the numerous cascading effects therefrom; possibly adding feats; and changing all the ability save DCs... Yeah, I'm no dummy, but if you find it easy to do without computer aid, you have a [I]way[/I] better math brain than I do. Even concentrating on the stuff you think will be needed and ignoring the stuff that probably won't, it's a chore. I am sorry to report that it basically burned me out on 3.5 before 4e was even announced. I think the breaking point for me was when I needed chorrim (think intelligent, militaristic Arcana Evolved giants/ogres/whatever) of various levels to challenge my PCs. I churned through the stat blocks, looked at how much time that took me, and more or less decided there and then that it was time for a game change. I started running SWSE (which is excellent) and WFRP2 (which is even more excellent). I also started up a new low-level 3.5 game, which was also quite enjoyable. I don't find your argument that the best way around the clunkier portions of an otherwise elegant rules set is to basically ignore them (by concentrating on puzzles and political intrigue) compelling. While this is certainly the case, I could be playing any RPG at that point. I like a rules-set to help me and work with me when I'm actually [I]using[/I] its mechanics. -O [/QUOTE]
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