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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3.5 Druids - what to do about them?
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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 2422449" data-attributes="member: 22882"><p>A druid will never (barring outrageously convoluted circumstances) be the least effective member of the party. He'll never be as poor a fighter as the sorc/wizzy/psion (or the rogue against non-sneak-attack-able enemies). He'll never be as poor a scout as the fighter. He'll never be as poor a spellcaster as the non-primary spellcasters or even the bard. On top of all that, he has his own schticks (summoning and interacting with nature), and in those he's vastly better than anyone else.</p><p></p><p>At WORST, the druid will be second best at almost everything, and not worse by a wide margin, and best at his own schticks. At best (and 'best' means 'any situation where he has time to prepare'), he'll be better than most at their specialties.</p><p></p><p>Compare that to the bard. He's never the best at fighting; under the right circumstances (the spellcasters have a chance to prepare), he may be the very worst. He's almost never the best spellcaster - even in enchantment spells he has no real edge over a sorcerer of the same level, if any. He's maybe an OK scout, if he took the skills, but nothing special - worse than a rogue and arguably worse than a druid with the same skills. He has his own schtick (buffing others) and he's extremely good at it.</p><p></p><p>At worst, the bard is third best at something, if not last, second or third best at another, and best at a narrow focus. At best, he's the best within a narrow specialty and second best at everything else.</p><p></p><p>Also, I find it interesting that many people equate 'the party having time to buff' with 'the DM fails to challenge them.' Your PCs, when tactically astute, rarely if ever have twelve to twenty-four seconds to spare? They never ambush their opponents as opposed to the inverse? Never delay entering a room or charging an encampment to prepare themselves?</p><p></p><p>As for the fix I favor, I would reduce the druid's spellcasting progression to the bard's. <em>Animal growth</em> then becomes one of the class's capstone spells rather than its "mid-level" buff. Removing the Natural Spell feat would significantly lower the druid's powerlevel, but in a less flavorful way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 2422449, member: 22882"] A druid will never (barring outrageously convoluted circumstances) be the least effective member of the party. He'll never be as poor a fighter as the sorc/wizzy/psion (or the rogue against non-sneak-attack-able enemies). He'll never be as poor a scout as the fighter. He'll never be as poor a spellcaster as the non-primary spellcasters or even the bard. On top of all that, he has his own schticks (summoning and interacting with nature), and in those he's vastly better than anyone else. At WORST, the druid will be second best at almost everything, and not worse by a wide margin, and best at his own schticks. At best (and 'best' means 'any situation where he has time to prepare'), he'll be better than most at their specialties. Compare that to the bard. He's never the best at fighting; under the right circumstances (the spellcasters have a chance to prepare), he may be the very worst. He's almost never the best spellcaster - even in enchantment spells he has no real edge over a sorcerer of the same level, if any. He's maybe an OK scout, if he took the skills, but nothing special - worse than a rogue and arguably worse than a druid with the same skills. He has his own schtick (buffing others) and he's extremely good at it. At worst, the bard is third best at something, if not last, second or third best at another, and best at a narrow focus. At best, he's the best within a narrow specialty and second best at everything else. Also, I find it interesting that many people equate 'the party having time to buff' with 'the DM fails to challenge them.' Your PCs, when tactically astute, rarely if ever have twelve to twenty-four seconds to spare? They never ambush their opponents as opposed to the inverse? Never delay entering a room or charging an encampment to prepare themselves? As for the fix I favor, I would reduce the druid's spellcasting progression to the bard's. [I]Animal growth[/I] then becomes one of the class's capstone spells rather than its "mid-level" buff. Removing the Natural Spell feat would significantly lower the druid's powerlevel, but in a less flavorful way. [/QUOTE]
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