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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3.5 Druids - what to do about them?
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<blockquote data-quote="mirivor" data-source="post: 2424181" data-attributes="member: 7478"><p>Alrighty, I must speak in defense of what is probably my favorite class.... I even play one in Workd of Warcraft! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> The druid is not overpowered. The only classes that are truly overpowered are PrC's. </p><p></p><p>Several points that I would like to make.</p><p></p><p>1) Wildshape is a Supernatural ability. It is magical in nature and does not function in Antimagic areas. Any DM who allows Animal Growth to be cast on a Wildshaped druid deserves to have a rampaging broken druid in his game. Regardless of what min/maxer might read into the spell, it should not be allowed.... In my humble opinion. </p><p></p><p>2) The druid's spell list is MASSIVELY inferior to every other caster... including the bard. Just have a gander down each list respectively and you should see what I am talking about. </p><p></p><p>3) Someone mentioned the whole "magic twin" issue. Here is a fantastic (In my experience) solution. Force the druid player to denote one animal that she is familiar with for each Rank of Knowledge: Animal (NOT NAture, that would be too easy, although you could use it if you wished.) that she has. This has really done well in my games and my players really enjoy the hard and fast rule. It also limits the good skill selection a little, though not detrimentally.I did the same with other knowledge skills, such as allowing clerics to designate an undead enemy for each rank in Knowledge: Undead. The player is allowed to reference the Monstrous manual concerning his particular selections, although that is not to say that they are always standard <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious :]" data-shortname=":]" /> ..... And yes, I "unrolled" various knowledge skills into their own little category for this purpose. Any player may put ranks into Knowledge: "creature type" and gain the same benefit. As I said, the players really enjoy this, as it cuts down on dice rolling a little, but still leaves the roll to determine something about an unknown foe. It really is cool, try it.</p><p></p><p>It has been my experience that the druid is not a very good fighter. His Spontaneous Summon spells take a full round, something that should be relatively difficult to pull off more than once in a combat. He has poor armor proficiency, limited weapon selection, and mediocre spells. He makes up for this in versatility. </p><p></p><p>I am not denying the claims of over-powered druids. This is a very real possibility. In my experiences it is the DM who creates unbalanced PC's. </p><p> - Allowing magic shops rates at the very top of my pet-peeve list. 3.5;s biggest flaw is the "grocery cart" theory, as I call it. Just erasing gold and writing a magical item onto your sheet in its place is awful. I much perferred the less rulesy 2nd edition method, where creating an item was a huge adventure in itself, and players who were told to trade or give up magical items would sooner be relieved of their own extremeties.</p><p></p><p> "WHAT? Give you my Ring of Deflection? What have you been smoking??!! I had to bandy words with a white wyrm, travel to the elmental plane of air to retrieve the essence of wind, and find a mastersmith Frost giant willing to craft it for me. There is no way in the nine hells that I will give you this ring..."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Less rules intensive and more random, but much cooler for PC development and such.</p><p></p><p> - Do NOT allow players to read "into" anything too much. Animal Growth is an example.</p><p></p><p> - Allowing all of the equipment to be available for the right price is also asking for trouble. A druid would love to get ahold of dragoncraft platemail. You as DM know this, but you allow it anyway. That would be the DM's fault, not the players who ony seek to gain the biggest advantage over their enemies, which is a natural function. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't mean to preach, but I feel that a lot of "unbalanced" issues really are the DM and what he decides to allow into his game. At any rate, I have not found any overpowered base classes yet, so long as the DM keeps the reins a little snug. After all, if you let a bull loose in china shop, things are bound to get broken! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" /> </p><p></p><p>PS: "Broken"... get it??? HAH! "Tee, hee... I KILL me...."</p><p></p><p></p><p>LOL!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mirivor, post: 2424181, member: 7478"] Alrighty, I must speak in defense of what is probably my favorite class.... I even play one in Workd of Warcraft! :p The druid is not overpowered. The only classes that are truly overpowered are PrC's. Several points that I would like to make. 1) Wildshape is a Supernatural ability. It is magical in nature and does not function in Antimagic areas. Any DM who allows Animal Growth to be cast on a Wildshaped druid deserves to have a rampaging broken druid in his game. Regardless of what min/maxer might read into the spell, it should not be allowed.... In my humble opinion. 2) The druid's spell list is MASSIVELY inferior to every other caster... including the bard. Just have a gander down each list respectively and you should see what I am talking about. 3) Someone mentioned the whole "magic twin" issue. Here is a fantastic (In my experience) solution. Force the druid player to denote one animal that she is familiar with for each Rank of Knowledge: Animal (NOT NAture, that would be too easy, although you could use it if you wished.) that she has. This has really done well in my games and my players really enjoy the hard and fast rule. It also limits the good skill selection a little, though not detrimentally.I did the same with other knowledge skills, such as allowing clerics to designate an undead enemy for each rank in Knowledge: Undead. The player is allowed to reference the Monstrous manual concerning his particular selections, although that is not to say that they are always standard :] ..... And yes, I "unrolled" various knowledge skills into their own little category for this purpose. Any player may put ranks into Knowledge: "creature type" and gain the same benefit. As I said, the players really enjoy this, as it cuts down on dice rolling a little, but still leaves the roll to determine something about an unknown foe. It really is cool, try it. It has been my experience that the druid is not a very good fighter. His Spontaneous Summon spells take a full round, something that should be relatively difficult to pull off more than once in a combat. He has poor armor proficiency, limited weapon selection, and mediocre spells. He makes up for this in versatility. I am not denying the claims of over-powered druids. This is a very real possibility. In my experiences it is the DM who creates unbalanced PC's. - Allowing magic shops rates at the very top of my pet-peeve list. 3.5;s biggest flaw is the "grocery cart" theory, as I call it. Just erasing gold and writing a magical item onto your sheet in its place is awful. I much perferred the less rulesy 2nd edition method, where creating an item was a huge adventure in itself, and players who were told to trade or give up magical items would sooner be relieved of their own extremeties. "WHAT? Give you my Ring of Deflection? What have you been smoking??!! I had to bandy words with a white wyrm, travel to the elmental plane of air to retrieve the essence of wind, and find a mastersmith Frost giant willing to craft it for me. There is no way in the nine hells that I will give you this ring..." Less rules intensive and more random, but much cooler for PC development and such. - Do NOT allow players to read "into" anything too much. Animal Growth is an example. - Allowing all of the equipment to be available for the right price is also asking for trouble. A druid would love to get ahold of dragoncraft platemail. You as DM know this, but you allow it anyway. That would be the DM's fault, not the players who ony seek to gain the biggest advantage over their enemies, which is a natural function. I don't mean to preach, but I feel that a lot of "unbalanced" issues really are the DM and what he decides to allow into his game. At any rate, I have not found any overpowered base classes yet, so long as the DM keeps the reins a little snug. After all, if you let a bull loose in china shop, things are bound to get broken! :cool: PS: "Broken"... get it??? HAH! "Tee, hee... I KILL me...." LOL! [/QUOTE]
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