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Character Builds & Optimization
3.5 Melee Rogue Build (now with extra feats!)
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<blockquote data-quote="Viandante" data-source="post: 5130203" data-attributes="member: 88225"><p>Hi!</p><p>It may seem like this post is a big wall of text (and it is), but the truth is that I like to go for quick sections. It's going to be less painful than it seems!</p><p></p><p>I'm going to start a new campaign, and I decided to go for a rogue.</p><p>Our DM decided to bring some Pathfinder rules and classes in the campaign: one of these is the feat gain at every odd level.</p><p></p><p>So I play a rogue who can have a feat at every level, as I can use Pathfinder's rogue, as long as I choose feats that exist in 3.5, even for my rogue ones.</p><p></p><p>My party has a Sorcerer (that will multiclass to Dracolexi), a Druid (that wants to be an Arcane Hierophant) and an Assassin / bunch of fighting classes.</p><p></p><p>I want to do a two weapon fighting rogue (nothing new), but I don't really want to optimize it to the death. I was thinking about a simple Rogue 5 / Invisible Blade 5 / Rogue +15.</p><p></p><p>I may accept other builds, but nothing too strange (so no, I won't take a monk level or an extremely complicated group of classes).</p><p></p><p>So, straight to my questions:</p><p>1) Which race should I choose?</p><p>2) Which feats?</p><p></p><p>I can use all 3.5 and Pathfinder's books...to be honest, everything that hasn't been houseruled is fine to my DM.</p><p></p><p><strong>RACES</strong></p><p>We are going to play in an evil campaign, starting from the underground, so no pretty elves.</p><p>Starting level will be around 3/4, so we can choose races that have lep > 0.</p><p></p><p>I was thinking about those races (I report them so you don't have to go look in all manuals, but I'll write down just important features):</p><p></p><p><strong>- Tiefling</strong></p><p></p><p>Tieflings have +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha, +2 on bluff and hide checks, some resistances, outsider type and its favored class is rogue, at a LEP +1 price.</p><p>I don't like losing charisma for a rogue, but I guess it's ok.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>- Drow</strong></p><p></p><p>Drows get +2 to Dex, Int and Cha and a -2 Cos. SR, +2 to spot, listen and search, some magics...but his favored class is wizard and has LEP +2.</p><p>A pain in the ass if my DM plays multiclassing by the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>- Shadowswyft (Planar Handbook)</strong></p><p></p><p>Shadowswyfts get +2 dex, -2 con, outsider type, 40 feet base speed, +2 on initiative checks, +4 on hide and move silently checks, favored class is rogue all for a LEP +1.</p><p>Nice!</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>- Chitine (Underdark)</strong></p><p></p><p>Chitines get +2 Dex, +2 Cos, +2 Int, -4 Cha, small size, +8 on climb checks (plus the ability to climb on ceilings, which is cool for a stealth pc), +2D8 HD, +2 BAB, +3 on Will and Reflex checks, +5x(2+int) skill points, bonus feat, bonus Multiweapon Fighting (which I may trade for something else, as it doesn't exist anymore), favored class rogue and LEP +2.</p><p>Great race, if it wasn't for that -4 to Charisma.</p><p></p><p><strong>- Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone)</strong></p><p></p><p>WGs get +2 to Dex and Con, -2 to Cha and Str, small size (but 30 feet speed), +4 to Hide checks (to a total of +8, considering it's small), +4 on Move Silently checks, +2 on Listen and Spot checks, some magic, favored class is rogue and no LEP.</p><p>With the Titan Fighting feat on this race I'd add the +4 dodge to AC to an enemy which is at least one size larger than me (so, most of the encounters).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't think of any other race. If you think you have something else to show me, let me know!</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>FEATS</strong></p><p></p><p>That's where I don't really know what to do. I mean, I have to choose 13 regular feats, 4 rogue feats and 6 advanced rogue feats.</p><p></p><p>I was thinking of (I'll mark with an * those I can take with my rogue bonus feats, ** if they are in the advanced list):</p><p></p><p>Two Weapons Fighting *</p><p>Fast Stealth *</p><p>Titan Fighting (if Whisper Gnome)</p><p>Opportunist ** (good for flanking)</p><p>Weapon Finesse *</p><p>Improved Initiative *</p><p>Weapon Focus (dagger) *</p><p>Quick Draw *</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here is a feat gaining table if I go with the Rogue 5 / IB 5 / Rogue +15:</p><p>F= Feat, R= Rogue Feat, A= Advanced Rogue Feat</p><p></p><p>Rogue</p><p> 1. F: TWF</p><p> 2. R: Weapon Finesse</p><p> 3. F: Improved Initiative</p><p> 4. R: Fast Stealth</p><p> 5. F: Weapon Focus (Dagger)</p><p> Invisible Blade</p><p> 6. </p><p> 7. F: Quick Draw (+ Hidden Blade skill trick)</p><p> 8. </p><p> 9. F</p><p> 10. </p><p> Rogue</p><p> 11. F, R</p><p> 12.</p><p> 13. F, R</p><p> 14.</p><p> 15. F, A: Opportunist</p><p> </p><p>What else should I take? In which order?</p><p></p><p>Which items should I consider?</p><p>I guess something that boosts AC, as I'll have no armor!</p><p></p><p>Thanks for your help, and sorry if this post is "a tad big".</p><p>Also, sorry for my english!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Viandante, post: 5130203, member: 88225"] Hi! It may seem like this post is a big wall of text (and it is), but the truth is that I like to go for quick sections. It's going to be less painful than it seems! I'm going to start a new campaign, and I decided to go for a rogue. Our DM decided to bring some Pathfinder rules and classes in the campaign: one of these is the feat gain at every odd level. So I play a rogue who can have a feat at every level, as I can use Pathfinder's rogue, as long as I choose feats that exist in 3.5, even for my rogue ones. My party has a Sorcerer (that will multiclass to Dracolexi), a Druid (that wants to be an Arcane Hierophant) and an Assassin / bunch of fighting classes. I want to do a two weapon fighting rogue (nothing new), but I don't really want to optimize it to the death. I was thinking about a simple Rogue 5 / Invisible Blade 5 / Rogue +15. I may accept other builds, but nothing too strange (so no, I won't take a monk level or an extremely complicated group of classes). So, straight to my questions: 1) Which race should I choose? 2) Which feats? I can use all 3.5 and Pathfinder's books...to be honest, everything that hasn't been houseruled is fine to my DM. [B]RACES[/B] We are going to play in an evil campaign, starting from the underground, so no pretty elves. Starting level will be around 3/4, so we can choose races that have lep > 0. I was thinking about those races (I report them so you don't have to go look in all manuals, but I'll write down just important features): [B]- Tiefling[/B] Tieflings have +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha, +2 on bluff and hide checks, some resistances, outsider type and its favored class is rogue, at a LEP +1 price. I don't like losing charisma for a rogue, but I guess it's ok. [B]- Drow[/B] Drows get +2 to Dex, Int and Cha and a -2 Cos. SR, +2 to spot, listen and search, some magics...but his favored class is wizard and has LEP +2. A pain in the ass if my DM plays multiclassing by the rules. [B]- Shadowswyft (Planar Handbook)[/B] Shadowswyfts get +2 dex, -2 con, outsider type, 40 feet base speed, +2 on initiative checks, +4 on hide and move silently checks, favored class is rogue all for a LEP +1. Nice! [B]- Chitine (Underdark)[/B] Chitines get +2 Dex, +2 Cos, +2 Int, -4 Cha, small size, +8 on climb checks (plus the ability to climb on ceilings, which is cool for a stealth pc), +2D8 HD, +2 BAB, +3 on Will and Reflex checks, +5x(2+int) skill points, bonus feat, bonus Multiweapon Fighting (which I may trade for something else, as it doesn't exist anymore), favored class rogue and LEP +2. Great race, if it wasn't for that -4 to Charisma. [B]- Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone)[/B] WGs get +2 to Dex and Con, -2 to Cha and Str, small size (but 30 feet speed), +4 to Hide checks (to a total of +8, considering it's small), +4 on Move Silently checks, +2 on Listen and Spot checks, some magic, favored class is rogue and no LEP. With the Titan Fighting feat on this race I'd add the +4 dodge to AC to an enemy which is at least one size larger than me (so, most of the encounters). I can't think of any other race. If you think you have something else to show me, let me know! [B]FEATS[/B] That's where I don't really know what to do. I mean, I have to choose 13 regular feats, 4 rogue feats and 6 advanced rogue feats. I was thinking of (I'll mark with an * those I can take with my rogue bonus feats, ** if they are in the advanced list): Two Weapons Fighting * Fast Stealth * Titan Fighting (if Whisper Gnome) Opportunist ** (good for flanking) Weapon Finesse * Improved Initiative * Weapon Focus (dagger) * Quick Draw * Here is a feat gaining table if I go with the Rogue 5 / IB 5 / Rogue +15: F= Feat, R= Rogue Feat, A= Advanced Rogue Feat Rogue 1. F: TWF 2. R: Weapon Finesse 3. F: Improved Initiative 4. R: Fast Stealth 5. F: Weapon Focus (Dagger) Invisible Blade 6. 7. F: Quick Draw (+ Hidden Blade skill trick) 8. 9. F 10. Rogue 11. F, R 12. 13. F, R 14. 15. F, A: Opportunist What else should I take? In which order? Which items should I consider? I guess something that boosts AC, as I'll have no armor! Thanks for your help, and sorry if this post is "a tad big". Also, sorry for my english! [/QUOTE]
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