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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
3.5 Melee Rogue Build (now with extra feats!)
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5130386" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Throwing is often pretty up close, but point taken. Note that Uncanny Feint was errata'd to only be once/round (yeah, that sucks). I will point out a level 1 divination spell in Spell Compendium (name escapes me) which casts as a swift ction and improves your feinting by one action (w/ Imp. Feint it becomes a free action next attempt). You might want to look into multiclassing 1 level into Diviner specialist wizard and then going into Unseen Seer (C.Mage). Full casting progression, and +4d6 SA by level 10, with 6 + int skill points.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Swordsage dip gives many benefits to a Rogue. First of all, Cloak of Deception (Shadow Hand, level 2) and Distracting Ember (Desert Wind, level 1) are both boosts to give you sneak attack reliably. The former gives you greater invisibility until end of turn, the latter gives you a flanking buddy. Both are swift actions. Shadow Hand also has Assassin's Stance (level 3), which is +2d6 sneak attack. So for 2 levels out of rogue, you get the sneak attack of 4 rogue levels. Why two levels? At Swordsage 1, you have to select a level 1 stance, thus you need to go 2 levels in for the second stance (or spend a feat on it, but I prefer to just go 2 levels). The level 1 Shadow Hand stances are both good. Island of Blades makes flanking easier; Child of Shadow synergizes well with Desert Wind Dodge, if using it, to give 20% concealment when you move 10+ ft a round. In any case, Swordsage ALSO makes it easy to qualify for Shadow Blade, to add dex to melee damage while in a shadow hand stance (and using a shadow hand weapon, which is mostly daggers and such).</p><p>Your other maneuvers known can also be useful, I only named 2 must haves out of the 7 you'll get. Sudden Leap in particular is nice to move and full attack in one turn. The reason to dip at level 9 is so that your IL is 5 (half of rogue 8 + Swordsage 1), the level that level 3 maneuvers become available. You could also do the first level in Swordsage earlier, and get the 2nd when you'd become IL 5.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I also really like the Opportunist and Skill Mastery benefits for Savvy Rogue, those are my 3 favorites.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whisper Gnomes aren't particularly exotic. And while some people call them broken, they're no better at being Rogues than dwarves are at being Fighters. I really will never understand how someone can think "Dwarf = fine, Whisper Gnome = OMG Game Breaker!" Up to your DM, of course. Hopefully he's open to it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Some groups don't need Trapfinding as much as others. If you don't think traps will be very important, it's a good trade, I was just pointing it out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5130386, member: 35909"] Throwing is often pretty up close, but point taken. Note that Uncanny Feint was errata'd to only be once/round (yeah, that sucks). I will point out a level 1 divination spell in Spell Compendium (name escapes me) which casts as a swift ction and improves your feinting by one action (w/ Imp. Feint it becomes a free action next attempt). You might want to look into multiclassing 1 level into Diviner specialist wizard and then going into Unseen Seer (C.Mage). Full casting progression, and +4d6 SA by level 10, with 6 + int skill points. Swordsage dip gives many benefits to a Rogue. First of all, Cloak of Deception (Shadow Hand, level 2) and Distracting Ember (Desert Wind, level 1) are both boosts to give you sneak attack reliably. The former gives you greater invisibility until end of turn, the latter gives you a flanking buddy. Both are swift actions. Shadow Hand also has Assassin's Stance (level 3), which is +2d6 sneak attack. So for 2 levels out of rogue, you get the sneak attack of 4 rogue levels. Why two levels? At Swordsage 1, you have to select a level 1 stance, thus you need to go 2 levels in for the second stance (or spend a feat on it, but I prefer to just go 2 levels). The level 1 Shadow Hand stances are both good. Island of Blades makes flanking easier; Child of Shadow synergizes well with Desert Wind Dodge, if using it, to give 20% concealment when you move 10+ ft a round. In any case, Swordsage ALSO makes it easy to qualify for Shadow Blade, to add dex to melee damage while in a shadow hand stance (and using a shadow hand weapon, which is mostly daggers and such). Your other maneuvers known can also be useful, I only named 2 must haves out of the 7 you'll get. Sudden Leap in particular is nice to move and full attack in one turn. The reason to dip at level 9 is so that your IL is 5 (half of rogue 8 + Swordsage 1), the level that level 3 maneuvers become available. You could also do the first level in Swordsage earlier, and get the 2nd when you'd become IL 5. :) I also really like the Opportunist and Skill Mastery benefits for Savvy Rogue, those are my 3 favorites. Whisper Gnomes aren't particularly exotic. And while some people call them broken, they're no better at being Rogues than dwarves are at being Fighters. I really will never understand how someone can think "Dwarf = fine, Whisper Gnome = OMG Game Breaker!" Up to your DM, of course. Hopefully he's open to it. Some groups don't need Trapfinding as much as others. If you don't think traps will be very important, it's a good trade, I was just pointing it out. [/QUOTE]
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