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[3.5] Speak to me of the Spellthief
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<blockquote data-quote="Cavall" data-source="post: 5401021" data-attributes="member: 100498"><p>My first post here on the boards but Ill do my best to clear up what I can.</p><p> </p><p>I AM NOT AN EXPERT at min maxing. I will tell you what I know, you can build from there. But I have read up a lot on this.</p><p> </p><p>I have only had one of these, but I strongly want to play more. You said you wanted to play a spell thief, so since we are talking about that, lets avoid dipping into other things.</p><p> </p><p>1. Master Spell Thief Feat. Lets get this out of the way right now. People either are reading it wrong, (making it the greatest one dip class in the game) or intentionally changing words to scam it. </p><p> </p><p>Not going to copy it all, just the relevant parts. Ill bold the really important parts.</p><p> </p><p>"<span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other</span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px">arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting <strong>other than the spellthief</strong>) for the purpose of determining what level of spell <strong>you can steal</strong>"</p><p></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">This means you can't take it by JUST being a spell thief, unlike what ShadyIzok was saying. Has to be a class other than just the one. Secondly, it only allows you to steal up to that level, you can't store any level higher than your spellthief level. So a sorc 6 spellth 1 could steal higher level spells, but only keep the 1st level ones.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">2. the guides. Dandu linked them, but the first came out before several books that could help you, the second is a guide that totally ignores what I just said about the feat because he (the maker, not Dandu) is reading it wrong. Lucky for you, I just quoted straight off the book, so now you know.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">3. Your Role. Now that the most common mistakes are out of the way, lets talk about what he is and isnt. You've actually picked a fun class, and a debuffer for not just casters. Once again I am assuming youll just play the class until you feel like you want to jump ship, we are currently playing with a level 9 character of this class.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 3a. You get a fair number of skill points, skills that are uncommon and trapfinding. You get all this for little less skills than a rogue and 1/2 the sneak.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 3b. You not only steal spells, but spell buffs and spell like abilities. Even better, you steal elemental resistances and borrow from your friends. NONE of this you can do if you just one level dip into the class. We have a dragon shaman, we fought something with many attacks and cold resistance. We stripped it off him, put up the damage aura and let the guy hit himself to death with his 5 attacks a round. Hell, once your dragon shaman is immune to energy, YOU are too. You cant steal immunity, making you resistant at all times to that kind of damage at a cost of zero to him.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 3c. You can still back stab. It may not be a lot, but its more damage than nothing and with some smart choices, you can really help out and pretty much replace the rogue.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Let me say that again. I feel this class replaces a rogue. You wont have as many skills, nor as much damage, but you can at least do it more than other classes AND still debuff.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">4. What you need to help you. </span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 4a. Telling blow (page 83 phb2, printed after that one guide). Crits add in sneak attacks. Sneak attacks mean either more damage or less spells from the bad guys.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> </span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 4b. Keen weapon. Take a rapier and keen it, with telling blow feat.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 4c. Two weapon fighting, now add in a dagger. Multiple attacks with keen weapons that have decent and great crit ranges (17-20 and 15-20).</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> 4d. A cloak of resistance. Yes. And a damn good one. See, you can soon absorb spells saved into you, but you can't do that until you save it first. So raise your saves.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Now there are many items (like spell battle rings in complete arcane) or feats (like taunting) that will make a bad guy hit you instead of the other one. If you have absorb spells, DO THIS. You want to get hit. Worst thing that happens you make the save by having high resistance. Best is you send his own spell back at him. Theres a large list, but I listed a couple options.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Now as for spells. Talk to your friends. Your cleric has grave strike, really low level spell. TAKE IT from him when fighting undead. Vampires dont turn easy, but they can't do a lot of spell attacks if you sneak attack with the grave strike spell. Theres ones for constructs too that mages can get. And ask for cloud of knives if you can. Free attacks at the start of each round to sneak with? Best spell you can get besides BLINK.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Thats pretty much the basics. Any fool that says its only to fight casters never had to fight a greater bhargast and laugh when its blink, bulls strength and hit points all went bye bye.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Thats a pretty decent first ever post I think. I can talk more if you have more questions.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cavall, post: 5401021, member: 100498"] My first post here on the boards but Ill do my best to clear up what I can. I AM NOT AN EXPERT at min maxing. I will tell you what I know, you can build from there. But I have read up a lot on this. I have only had one of these, but I strongly want to play more. You said you wanted to play a spell thief, so since we are talking about that, lets avoid dipping into other things. 1. Master Spell Thief Feat. Lets get this out of the way right now. People either are reading it wrong, (making it the greatest one dip class in the game) or intentionally changing words to scam it. Not going to copy it all, just the relevant parts. Ill bold the really important parts. "[FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=3][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=3]Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other [LEFT]arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting [B]other than the spellthief[/B]) for the purpose of determining what level of spell [B]you can steal[/B]"[/LEFT] [SIZE=2]This means you can't take it by JUST being a spell thief, unlike what ShadyIzok was saying. Has to be a class other than just the one. Secondly, it only allows you to steal up to that level, you can't store any level higher than your spellthief level. So a sorc 6 spellth 1 could steal higher level spells, but only keep the 1st level ones.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]2. the guides. Dandu linked them, but the first came out before several books that could help you, the second is a guide that totally ignores what I just said about the feat because he (the maker, not Dandu) is reading it wrong. Lucky for you, I just quoted straight off the book, so now you know.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]3. Your Role. Now that the most common mistakes are out of the way, lets talk about what he is and isnt. You've actually picked a fun class, and a debuffer for not just casters. Once again I am assuming youll just play the class until you feel like you want to jump ship, we are currently playing with a level 9 character of this class.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 3a. You get a fair number of skill points, skills that are uncommon and trapfinding. You get all this for little less skills than a rogue and 1/2 the sneak.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 3b. You not only steal spells, but spell buffs and spell like abilities. Even better, you steal elemental resistances and borrow from your friends. NONE of this you can do if you just one level dip into the class. We have a dragon shaman, we fought something with many attacks and cold resistance. We stripped it off him, put up the damage aura and let the guy hit himself to death with his 5 attacks a round. Hell, once your dragon shaman is immune to energy, YOU are too. You cant steal immunity, making you resistant at all times to that kind of damage at a cost of zero to him.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 3c. You can still back stab. It may not be a lot, but its more damage than nothing and with some smart choices, you can really help out and pretty much replace the rogue.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Let me say that again. I feel this class replaces a rogue. You wont have as many skills, nor as much damage, but you can at least do it more than other classes AND still debuff.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]4. What you need to help you. [/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 4a. Telling blow (page 83 phb2, printed after that one guide). Crits add in sneak attacks. Sneak attacks mean either more damage or less spells from the bad guys.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2] [/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 4b. Keen weapon. Take a rapier and keen it, with telling blow feat.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 4c. Two weapon fighting, now add in a dagger. Multiple attacks with keen weapons that have decent and great crit ranges (17-20 and 15-20).[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 4d. A cloak of resistance. Yes. And a damn good one. See, you can soon absorb spells saved into you, but you can't do that until you save it first. So raise your saves.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Now there are many items (like spell battle rings in complete arcane) or feats (like taunting) that will make a bad guy hit you instead of the other one. If you have absorb spells, DO THIS. You want to get hit. Worst thing that happens you make the save by having high resistance. Best is you send his own spell back at him. Theres a large list, but I listed a couple options.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Now as for spells. Talk to your friends. Your cleric has grave strike, really low level spell. TAKE IT from him when fighting undead. Vampires dont turn easy, but they can't do a lot of spell attacks if you sneak attack with the grave strike spell. Theres ones for constructs too that mages can get. And ask for cloud of knives if you can. Free attacks at the start of each round to sneak with? Best spell you can get besides BLINK.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Thats pretty much the basics. Any fool that says its only to fight casters never had to fight a greater bhargast and laugh when its blink, bulls strength and hit points all went bye bye.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Thats a pretty decent first ever post I think. I can talk more if you have more questions.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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[3.5] Speak to me of the Spellthief
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