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3.5 Stat Blocks Kill my creativity
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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 2205643" data-attributes="member: 30001"><p>I wonder if my own statements are accurately capturing how I feel on this issue. I would only say "cheating the other players" with an explanation:</p><p> </p><p>I don't have any philosophical problem with custom stats for creatures. For example Jasper's examples are all fine examples for situations that I don't have a problem judging. My problem is when the DM has communicated to the PCs (however subtly, and I'm sure this is controversial) that the NPC is some sort of "typical" specimen for the context in which they are dealing, and then is not. In the old school days* this would be like walking into a room with three orcs and then finding out that the three orcs had 30 hp each - without any descriptive text to suggest the difference. One thing about DnD (for me) in those days that was cool was that there was some sort of consistency in the world - the NPCs didn't necessarily have some sort of priveledged (or disadvantaged) position compared to the PCs. Exceptional situations were exceptional because of DM choice, not because the rules were too complicated.</p><p> </p><p>The monopoly example I meant only to address someone's earlier statement that because DnD is a game, that means XYZ. Just because something is a game doesn't mean that people don't have expectations. That's about as far as that goes. </p><p> </p><p>The players have a right to consistency from the DM IMO, not whim. If my NPC hits PC the first three rounds in combat until the PC has 2 hp left and then misses for the rest of the battle, the player will catch on quickly. Of course this doesn't have to do directly with statting NPCs, but the comments made on the side of "DM does what he wants" started going down this road. So some of my comments in previous posts are probably OT for this thread, but were trying to address issues that seemed common to the more "free-wheeling" style.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I have no problem with this example. I put it in the same category as Jasper's examples. DnD doesn't make for a playable mass combat game - and on my version of the "DM social contract" is a line saying "thou shalt make up rules to arbitrate a situation when the current rules are not suitable" If you want to take this to extremes, I have a campaign history in my world - I never played out the battles that occured between every historical figure.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Ok, I hear you. But that IMO has things in common with changing them on the fly. Were DnD to have a tradition of making up stats before a battle, then orcs would have 1 HD for first level characters and 10 HD when they were facing higher level characters. I think that's just human nature, combined with the fact that an exhausted DM IME cannot keep his biases from affecting decisions, and that over the (not so) long run, players notice and IMO something is lost. The irony is that this is my exact same argument with people that don't like the 3E skill system, and would rather just "make up" the success/failure of someone trying to climb a tree based on the intangibles of that character's background. The other part to my feelings on this issue was the "30 hp orc" example above. </p><p> </p><p>In general, I don't think it would be hard for you to come up with a list of situations where you make stuff up just before the battle - similar to what Jasper did - and I would agree with everything on that list. The issue is when the rules of the game start almost *requiring* that you do things this way because of their complexity. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Absolutely.</p><p> </p><p>*They really need a smiley-face icon of an old dude in a rocking chair for when I start waxing eloquent about the old days.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 2205643, member: 30001"] I wonder if my own statements are accurately capturing how I feel on this issue. I would only say "cheating the other players" with an explanation: I don't have any philosophical problem with custom stats for creatures. For example Jasper's examples are all fine examples for situations that I don't have a problem judging. My problem is when the DM has communicated to the PCs (however subtly, and I'm sure this is controversial) that the NPC is some sort of "typical" specimen for the context in which they are dealing, and then is not. In the old school days* this would be like walking into a room with three orcs and then finding out that the three orcs had 30 hp each - without any descriptive text to suggest the difference. One thing about DnD (for me) in those days that was cool was that there was some sort of consistency in the world - the NPCs didn't necessarily have some sort of priveledged (or disadvantaged) position compared to the PCs. Exceptional situations were exceptional because of DM choice, not because the rules were too complicated. The monopoly example I meant only to address someone's earlier statement that because DnD is a game, that means XYZ. Just because something is a game doesn't mean that people don't have expectations. That's about as far as that goes. The players have a right to consistency from the DM IMO, not whim. If my NPC hits PC the first three rounds in combat until the PC has 2 hp left and then misses for the rest of the battle, the player will catch on quickly. Of course this doesn't have to do directly with statting NPCs, but the comments made on the side of "DM does what he wants" started going down this road. So some of my comments in previous posts are probably OT for this thread, but were trying to address issues that seemed common to the more "free-wheeling" style. I have no problem with this example. I put it in the same category as Jasper's examples. DnD doesn't make for a playable mass combat game - and on my version of the "DM social contract" is a line saying "thou shalt make up rules to arbitrate a situation when the current rules are not suitable" If you want to take this to extremes, I have a campaign history in my world - I never played out the battles that occured between every historical figure. Ok, I hear you. But that IMO has things in common with changing them on the fly. Were DnD to have a tradition of making up stats before a battle, then orcs would have 1 HD for first level characters and 10 HD when they were facing higher level characters. I think that's just human nature, combined with the fact that an exhausted DM IME cannot keep his biases from affecting decisions, and that over the (not so) long run, players notice and IMO something is lost. The irony is that this is my exact same argument with people that don't like the 3E skill system, and would rather just "make up" the success/failure of someone trying to climb a tree based on the intangibles of that character's background. The other part to my feelings on this issue was the "30 hp orc" example above. In general, I don't think it would be hard for you to come up with a list of situations where you make stuff up just before the battle - similar to what Jasper did - and I would agree with everything on that list. The issue is when the rules of the game start almost *requiring* that you do things this way because of their complexity. Absolutely. *They really need a smiley-face icon of an old dude in a rocking chair for when I start waxing eloquent about the old days. [/QUOTE]
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