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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5665294" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>It should be noted, Cleaving Finish (aka, "3E Cleave") requires Cleave (the crappy PF one). So no one will ever be taking it, because paying two feats just for Cleave, while ironically perfectly fitting into PF's modus operandi of having an odd fetish for making perfectly balanced martial feats cost double, is simply not worth it.</p><p></p><p>I suppose they couldn't have just made it a stand-alone feat only requiring power attack like Cleave (PF version) does and leave it up to the player to decide which he prefers. The resulting number of people ditching their concept for the old would be pretty embarassing, wouldn't it?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, I know! I get thrown off all the time by the changes! I still have no idea why they altered Mirror Image, all I know is, when you combine that spell with a twinked out AC now, you get an enemy that's frustratingly unhittable (the images have the caster's AC -5, not AC 10). Combine with the fact that they <strong>removed</strong> the line about once you hit the real guy, until the caster's next turn when he can again move and shift where the images are, you can point out to your friends where the real caster is. Because they outright took that line away and left it ambiguous, our DM ruled it was an intentional change. Long story short, we had the little bugger surrounded but it took us 3-4 rounds to land one actual hit on him, which we were unable to follow with a flurry of true hits, due to the rule change. When we finally got the images all destroyed, the DM was like, "You're going to hate me for this, but he's a mage and it IS smart to do..." and he...recast mirror image! The battle ended up taking almost 3 hours! Of some mage just standing there toe to toe with us! And it wasn't even because we finally felled him. He <strong>ran out of spells(!!!!)</strong> pwning us so hard and had to retreat!</p><p></p><p>Sorry, that was such an awful experience I had to rant on it. Another example of tiny changes throwing me off was a game last week. We got surprised by grapple no longer making someone lose dex to AC so the rogue could sneak attack. Then we got confused later on that apparently a grappled creature can still flank with a friend on hte opposite side of the foe. So when a legendary shark grappled our rogue, which should have been super bad for her, she fileted it for almost 200 damage instead. Later still, the Summoner was surprised to learn that in PF, claws do bludgeoning and piercing damage. Finally, I left an enemy nearly defenseless with Hideous Laughter and we decided to hog tie him for questioning. Took a fair while to figure out HOW to do that, with the Use Rope skill completely gone. This was all in one session, in a group that's been playing the game with PF rules for almost 2 years.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5665294, member: 35909"] It should be noted, Cleaving Finish (aka, "3E Cleave") requires Cleave (the crappy PF one). So no one will ever be taking it, because paying two feats just for Cleave, while ironically perfectly fitting into PF's modus operandi of having an odd fetish for making perfectly balanced martial feats cost double, is simply not worth it. I suppose they couldn't have just made it a stand-alone feat only requiring power attack like Cleave (PF version) does and leave it up to the player to decide which he prefers. The resulting number of people ditching their concept for the old would be pretty embarassing, wouldn't it? Oh, I know! I get thrown off all the time by the changes! I still have no idea why they altered Mirror Image, all I know is, when you combine that spell with a twinked out AC now, you get an enemy that's frustratingly unhittable (the images have the caster's AC -5, not AC 10). Combine with the fact that they [b]removed[/b] the line about once you hit the real guy, until the caster's next turn when he can again move and shift where the images are, you can point out to your friends where the real caster is. Because they outright took that line away and left it ambiguous, our DM ruled it was an intentional change. Long story short, we had the little bugger surrounded but it took us 3-4 rounds to land one actual hit on him, which we were unable to follow with a flurry of true hits, due to the rule change. When we finally got the images all destroyed, the DM was like, "You're going to hate me for this, but he's a mage and it IS smart to do..." and he...recast mirror image! The battle ended up taking almost 3 hours! Of some mage just standing there toe to toe with us! And it wasn't even because we finally felled him. He [b]ran out of spells(!!!!)[/b] pwning us so hard and had to retreat! Sorry, that was such an awful experience I had to rant on it. Another example of tiny changes throwing me off was a game last week. We got surprised by grapple no longer making someone lose dex to AC so the rogue could sneak attack. Then we got confused later on that apparently a grappled creature can still flank with a friend on hte opposite side of the foe. So when a legendary shark grappled our rogue, which should have been super bad for her, she fileted it for almost 200 damage instead. Later still, the Summoner was surprised to learn that in PF, claws do bludgeoning and piercing damage. Finally, I left an enemy nearly defenseless with Hideous Laughter and we decided to hog tie him for questioning. Took a fair while to figure out HOW to do that, with the Use Rope skill completely gone. This was all in one session, in a group that's been playing the game with PF rules for almost 2 years. [/QUOTE]
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