Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3E D&D Aurelia setting & houserules material (now with magic items!)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 4223832" data-attributes="member: 13966"><p>Realized one little exploit that had slipped my mind earlier, with the Elven Bladesinger. So I switched the levels at which they gain Quicken Song and Toughness/Endure (now 9th level and 5th level respectively, instead of the reverse; more recently I replaced their Toughness bonus feat with Endure, a minor HP bonus). My original considerations of the Quicken Song ability were based on the most likely scenario of a Bladesinger actually continuing to advance as a Bladesinger or as a multiclassed warrior/mage combination of some sort.</p><p></p><p>It just occured to me that if somebody really wanted to, they could've taken 1 level of Zealot Cleric, 6 levels of Wizard, 5 levels of Elven Bladesinger, and another 8 levels of Wizard, becoming a Zealot 1/Wizard 14/Elven Bladesinger 5, who cast spells as per a Wizard 16, but could Quicken 2 8th-level spells per day and Extend 2 other 8th-level spells per day (if they were a specialist with 34 Int) or 2 other 7th-level spells per day instead.</p><p></p><p>While it wouldn't be too bad (pure Wizards with Time Stop could do worse, but at the expense of more high-level slots in one round), it could get really bad if they hit epic levels and started Quickening 9th-level spells right at 21st level. And Extending Time Stops right at 21st-level. While being much tougher than a pure Wizard (and more capable of falling back on spells like Tenser's Transformation for fighting golems and such, even though Aurelia will have a different spell in its place that works somewhat differently).</p><p></p><p></p><p>In other news, the swashbuckler was posted the other day, and I may have another race, class, or prestige class done in the next few days. Also thinking of putting up a more significant Feats post or two, in place of the small Feats Preview.</p><p></p><p>Oh yeah, and regarding the Spellreaver: my third bard variant. The Troubadour will be finished sooner, but I still need to detail its unique Bardic Music options (since it gets more of 'em than the others). While Swashbucklers get access to only a few BM options, and Troubadours get access to more than the standard Bard, Spellreavers have no Bardic Music. They share other bardic traits instead, like Bardic Knowledge (gained a bit later than normal), Telling Blow, and Ignore Components. They get bardic spellcasting but slightly better, as they're the most caster-oriented Aurelian bard variant.</p><p></p><p>Much less skill-oriented than the others, and less music/speech oriented than the others, but more magic-oriented overall and more battle-focused. Their combat prowess is similar to a standard Bard's, but they get a lot more battle-magic, with an altered spell list (less utility and mind-affecting spells, more buffing, debuffing, and blasting spells, though still not as good as a wizard or cleric in those regards). Spellreavers are basically the battlemage or warrior-mage archetype in Aurelia, though of a somewhat bardic persuasion.</p><p></p><p>However, many of their magical combat tricks require expending spell slots and/or taking some backlash damage, so they lack the endurance of a fighter/wizard or somebody who goes for the Spellsword, Elven Bladesinger, Arcane Archer, or Eldritch Marksman prestige classes. Instead they just get to do the warrior-mage shtick reasonably well right at the start, and have a decent selection of noncombat skills they can choose to learn.</p><p></p><p>My other ideas for a third bard variant just didn't quite fit well enough with the way I had already set it up; Bards as the most versatile and balanced version, Swashbucklers as the least magical and most skilled in combat but still good with skills, and Troubadours as the most skill-oriented, performance-oriented, and most nimble in general, also good with bardic knowledge and feats, but sacrificing some spells and some combat ability. I needed a spells-oriented variant that was a bit tougher, and more offensively potent than a swashbuckler (SBs are defensive and accurate, but not so potent), but less nimble and less versatile.</p><p></p><p>The skald, a.k.a. inspired bard, was turned into a prestige class instead, since I determined that it was just too good and yet too similar to a cleric/bard or druid/bard; the resultant prestige class is a bit more unique and interesting to me, and not so unbalanced. The jester/harlequin/trickster just wasn't necessary, and that archetype can already be filled well by a Bard, Troubadour, Rogue, Prodigy (rogue variant), or multiclass thereof. The wardancer variant bard is also likely to become a prestige class instead, and just wasn't what I was looking for anyway, as it's a spell-less, full-BAB class focused on wardances instead of spells and bardic music. The commander variant just didn't really seem bardic to me, except in the vaguest sense of its role as a 'social type with great inspirational abilities, decent skills, and decent combat ability'. Some of its abilities may just become options for the Myrmidon prestige class or other PrCs.</p><p></p><p>A Spellreaver preview below. Physical Training boosts Fortitude and Reflex. I'm still considering whether or not to give them a d8 HD with 6 sp/level, or a d10 with 4 sp.</p><p>[code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]The Spellreaver:[/I][/U][/COLOR]</p><p>[COLOR=Blue]Class Base Fort. Ref. Will</p><p>Level Attack Save Save Save Special[/COLOR][/B]</p><p>1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Ignore Components 1/day, Reaver Magic</p><p>2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Physical Training +1</p><p>3 +2 +1 +1 +3 Bardic Knowledge</p><p>4 +3 +1 +1 +4 Ignore Components 2/day</p><p>5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Chaos Reaver 1/week, Reaver Magic</p><p>6 +4 +2 +2 +5 Telling Blow 1/day</p><p>7 +5 +2 +2 +5 Ignore Components 3/day</p><p>8 +6/+1 +2 +2 +6</p><p>9 +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Physical Training +2, Reaver Magic</p><p>10 +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Ignore Components 4/day</p><p>11 +8/+3 +3 +3 +7</p><p>12 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Telling Blow 2/day</p><p>13 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Ignore Components 5/day, Reaver Magic</p><p>14 +10/+5 +4 +4 +9</p><p>15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Chaos Reaver 2/week</p><p>16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Ignore Components 6/day</p><p>17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Reaver Magic</p><p>18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Telling Blow 3/day</p><p>19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Ignore Components 7/day</p><p>20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Chaos Reaver 3/week[/code]</p><p>[code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]Spellreaver Spells Rehearsed & Spells Per Day:[/I][/U][/COLOR]</p><p>[COLOR=Blue]Class Spells Rehearsed/Spells Per Day</p><p>Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6[/COLOR][/B]</p><p>1 5/4 2/1 - - - - -</p><p>2 6/5 3/2 - - - - -</p><p>3 7/5 3/3 - - - - -</p><p>4 7/5 4/3 2/1 - - - -</p><p>5 7/5 4/4 3/2 - - - -</p><p>6 7/5 4/4 3/3 - - - -</p><p>7 7/5 4/4 4/3 2/1 - - -</p><p>8 7/5 4/4 4/4 3/2 - - -</p><p>9 7/5 4/4 4/4 3/3 - - -</p><p>10 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/3 2/1 - -</p><p>11 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/2 - -</p><p>12 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/3 - -</p><p>13 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 2/1 -</p><p>14 7/6 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/2 -</p><p>15 7/6 4/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/3 -</p><p>16 7/6 5/5 4/5 4/4 4/4 4/3 2/1</p><p>17 7/6 5/5 5/5 4/5 4/4 4/4 3/2</p><p>18 7/6 5/5 5/5 5/5 4/5 4/4 3/3</p><p>19 7/6 5/5 5/5 5/5 5/5 4/5 4/4</p><p>20 7/6 5/5 5/5 5/5 5/5 5/5 4/5[/code]</p><p></p><p>And a Skald prestige class preview here. They have to make a Sacrifice of some sort at 1st level, and their Gift/Greater Gift are dependant on the kind of Sacrifice; giving up an eye permanently will get them divinatory Gifts, frex, like Odin of Norse mythology.</p><p>[code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]The Skald:[/I][/U][/COLOR]</p><p>[COLOR=Blue]Class Base Fort. Ref. Will</p><p>Level Attack Save Save Save Special Spellcasting Ability[/COLOR][/B]</p><p>1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Arcane Edge, Bardic Knowledge,</p><p> Bardic Music, Gift</p><p>2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Baleful Insight +1 level of existing class</p><p>3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Eldritch Secret +1 level of existing class</p><p>4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Druidic Boon</p><p>5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Inspired Fury +1 level of existing class</p><p>6 +4 +5 +2 +5 Aura of Courage +1 level of existing class</p><p>7 +5 +5 +2 +5 Druidic Boon</p><p>8 +6 +6 +2 +6 Divine Insight +1 level of existing class</p><p>9 +6 +6 +3 +6 Bardic Intuition +1 level of existing class</p><p>10 +7 +7 +3 +7 Greater Gift[/code]</p><p></p><p>For now, this is what the Tribal Wardancer prestige class looks like, though it may get a few abilities removed or shifted around by the time I finish detailing and balancing it.</p><p>[code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]The Tribal Wardancer:[/I][/U][/COLOR]</p><p>[COLOR=Blue]Class Base Fort. Ref. Will</p><p>Level Attack Save Save Save Special[/COLOR][/B]</p><p>1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Agile Warrior, Wardance</p><p>2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Chant, Evasion</p><p>3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Spring Attack, Wardance</p><p>4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Fast Movement</p><p>5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Limited Skill Mastery, Wardance</p><p>6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Whirlwind Attack</p><p>7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Greater Spring Attack, Wardance</p><p>8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Improved Evasion</p><p>9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Greater Whirlwind Attack, Wardance</p><p>10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Blended Wardance, Greater Chant[/code]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 4223832, member: 13966"] Realized one little exploit that had slipped my mind earlier, with the Elven Bladesinger. So I switched the levels at which they gain Quicken Song and Toughness/Endure (now 9th level and 5th level respectively, instead of the reverse; more recently I replaced their Toughness bonus feat with Endure, a minor HP bonus). My original considerations of the Quicken Song ability were based on the most likely scenario of a Bladesinger actually continuing to advance as a Bladesinger or as a multiclassed warrior/mage combination of some sort. It just occured to me that if somebody really wanted to, they could've taken 1 level of Zealot Cleric, 6 levels of Wizard, 5 levels of Elven Bladesinger, and another 8 levels of Wizard, becoming a Zealot 1/Wizard 14/Elven Bladesinger 5, who cast spells as per a Wizard 16, but could Quicken 2 8th-level spells per day and Extend 2 other 8th-level spells per day (if they were a specialist with 34 Int) or 2 other 7th-level spells per day instead. While it wouldn't be too bad (pure Wizards with Time Stop could do worse, but at the expense of more high-level slots in one round), it could get really bad if they hit epic levels and started Quickening 9th-level spells right at 21st level. And Extending Time Stops right at 21st-level. While being much tougher than a pure Wizard (and more capable of falling back on spells like Tenser's Transformation for fighting golems and such, even though Aurelia will have a different spell in its place that works somewhat differently). In other news, the swashbuckler was posted the other day, and I may have another race, class, or prestige class done in the next few days. Also thinking of putting up a more significant Feats post or two, in place of the small Feats Preview. Oh yeah, and regarding the Spellreaver: my third bard variant. The Troubadour will be finished sooner, but I still need to detail its unique Bardic Music options (since it gets more of 'em than the others). While Swashbucklers get access to only a few BM options, and Troubadours get access to more than the standard Bard, Spellreavers have no Bardic Music. They share other bardic traits instead, like Bardic Knowledge (gained a bit later than normal), Telling Blow, and Ignore Components. They get bardic spellcasting but slightly better, as they're the most caster-oriented Aurelian bard variant. Much less skill-oriented than the others, and less music/speech oriented than the others, but more magic-oriented overall and more battle-focused. Their combat prowess is similar to a standard Bard's, but they get a lot more battle-magic, with an altered spell list (less utility and mind-affecting spells, more buffing, debuffing, and blasting spells, though still not as good as a wizard or cleric in those regards). Spellreavers are basically the battlemage or warrior-mage archetype in Aurelia, though of a somewhat bardic persuasion. However, many of their magical combat tricks require expending spell slots and/or taking some backlash damage, so they lack the endurance of a fighter/wizard or somebody who goes for the Spellsword, Elven Bladesinger, Arcane Archer, or Eldritch Marksman prestige classes. Instead they just get to do the warrior-mage shtick reasonably well right at the start, and have a decent selection of noncombat skills they can choose to learn. My other ideas for a third bard variant just didn't quite fit well enough with the way I had already set it up; Bards as the most versatile and balanced version, Swashbucklers as the least magical and most skilled in combat but still good with skills, and Troubadours as the most skill-oriented, performance-oriented, and most nimble in general, also good with bardic knowledge and feats, but sacrificing some spells and some combat ability. I needed a spells-oriented variant that was a bit tougher, and more offensively potent than a swashbuckler (SBs are defensive and accurate, but not so potent), but less nimble and less versatile. The skald, a.k.a. inspired bard, was turned into a prestige class instead, since I determined that it was just too good and yet too similar to a cleric/bard or druid/bard; the resultant prestige class is a bit more unique and interesting to me, and not so unbalanced. The jester/harlequin/trickster just wasn't necessary, and that archetype can already be filled well by a Bard, Troubadour, Rogue, Prodigy (rogue variant), or multiclass thereof. The wardancer variant bard is also likely to become a prestige class instead, and just wasn't what I was looking for anyway, as it's a spell-less, full-BAB class focused on wardances instead of spells and bardic music. The commander variant just didn't really seem bardic to me, except in the vaguest sense of its role as a 'social type with great inspirational abilities, decent skills, and decent combat ability'. Some of its abilities may just become options for the Myrmidon prestige class or other PrCs. A Spellreaver preview below. Physical Training boosts Fortitude and Reflex. I'm still considering whether or not to give them a d8 HD with 6 sp/level, or a d10 with 4 sp. [code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]The Spellreaver:[/I][/U][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]Class Base Fort. Ref. Will Level Attack Save Save Save Special[/COLOR][/B] 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Ignore Components 1/day, Reaver Magic 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Physical Training +1 3 +2 +1 +1 +3 Bardic Knowledge 4 +3 +1 +1 +4 Ignore Components 2/day 5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Chaos Reaver 1/week, Reaver Magic 6 +4 +2 +2 +5 Telling Blow 1/day 7 +5 +2 +2 +5 Ignore Components 3/day 8 +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 9 +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Physical Training +2, Reaver Magic 10 +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Ignore Components 4/day 11 +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 12 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Telling Blow 2/day 13 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Ignore Components 5/day, Reaver Magic 14 +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Chaos Reaver 2/week 16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Ignore Components 6/day 17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Reaver Magic 18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Telling Blow 3/day 19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Ignore Components 7/day 20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Chaos Reaver 3/week[/code] [code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]Spellreaver Spells Rehearsed & Spells Per Day:[/I][/U][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]Class Spells Rehearsed/Spells Per Day Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6[/COLOR][/B] 1 5/4 2/1 - - - - - 2 6/5 3/2 - - - - - 3 7/5 3/3 - - - - - 4 7/5 4/3 2/1 - - - - 5 7/5 4/4 3/2 - - - - 6 7/5 4/4 3/3 - - - - 7 7/5 4/4 4/3 2/1 - - - 8 7/5 4/4 4/4 3/2 - - - 9 7/5 4/4 4/4 3/3 - - - 10 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/3 2/1 - - 11 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/2 - - 12 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/3 - - 13 7/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 2/1 - 14 7/6 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/2 - 15 7/6 4/5 4/4 4/4 4/4 3/3 - 16 7/6 5/5 4/5 4/4 4/4 4/3 2/1 17 7/6 5/5 5/5 4/5 4/4 4/4 3/2 18 7/6 5/5 5/5 5/5 4/5 4/4 3/3 19 7/6 5/5 5/5 5/5 5/5 4/5 4/4 20 7/6 5/5 5/5 5/5 5/5 5/5 4/5[/code] And a Skald prestige class preview here. They have to make a Sacrifice of some sort at 1st level, and their Gift/Greater Gift are dependant on the kind of Sacrifice; giving up an eye permanently will get them divinatory Gifts, frex, like Odin of Norse mythology. [code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]The Skald:[/I][/U][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]Class Base Fort. Ref. Will Level Attack Save Save Save Special Spellcasting Ability[/COLOR][/B] 1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Arcane Edge, Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, Gift 2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Baleful Insight +1 level of existing class 3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Eldritch Secret +1 level of existing class 4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Druidic Boon 5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Inspired Fury +1 level of existing class 6 +4 +5 +2 +5 Aura of Courage +1 level of existing class 7 +5 +5 +2 +5 Druidic Boon 8 +6 +6 +2 +6 Divine Insight +1 level of existing class 9 +6 +6 +3 +6 Bardic Intuition +1 level of existing class 10 +7 +7 +3 +7 Greater Gift[/code] For now, this is what the Tribal Wardancer prestige class looks like, though it may get a few abilities removed or shifted around by the time I finish detailing and balancing it. [code][B][COLOR=Red][U][I]The Tribal Wardancer:[/I][/U][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]Class Base Fort. Ref. Will Level Attack Save Save Save Special[/COLOR][/B] 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Agile Warrior, Wardance 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Chant, Evasion 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Spring Attack, Wardance 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Fast Movement 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Limited Skill Mastery, Wardance 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Whirlwind Attack 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Greater Spring Attack, Wardance 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Improved Evasion 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Greater Whirlwind Attack, Wardance 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Blended Wardance, Greater Chant[/code] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3E D&D Aurelia setting & houserules material (now with magic items!)
Top