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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5855477" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>The problem with this sort of thing, is that you're dumping a whole boatload of rules processing onto the game. It's not like in 4e where you have fairly discrete rules for your character most of the time. Now you have fifteen different rules for what you can do, and that's going to add a considerable amount of handling time to combat. 3e showed that rather well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, if you're getting three completely different responses, there's something SERIOUSLY wrong here. And why would you go to different specialists for the same problem? But, in any case, if the first guy tells you you have a slipped disk, the second guy says you have appendicitis, and the third guy is talking about your spleen, you REALLY need to find a real doctor. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now you're moving the goalposts though. As you said, I would expect different results from entirely different genres and games. I would not expect D&D to work the same as Vampire or GURPS. That's a given.</p><p></p><p>However, if two groups are playing D&D, and they are doing fairly common D&D actions, such as trying to hit something with a lumpy metal thing, then I would expect the responses to be pretty darn close.</p><p></p><p>Even your example of talking to the guard, should get fairly reasonably close responses from the DM - you make your bluff/diplomacy check and go from there. I wouldn't expect, however, to suddenly have to roll a D100 and compare to my combined CHA and Diplomacy scores.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The trick though is that the wizard will NEVER spam magic missiles. He's got a bajillion different tricks in his bag, most of which are significantly BETTER than magic missile. As he goes up levels, his tricks all get more powerful. The fighter's tricks actually get LESS powerful as he goes up levels - tripping is great at 1st level, far less useful at 10th level and virtually impossible to pull off at 20th because the monster's are virtually untrippable due to size and other bonuses.</p><p></p><p>Unless, of course, the fighter laser beam focuses on trip to the exclusion of virtually anything else.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5855477, member: 22779"] The problem with this sort of thing, is that you're dumping a whole boatload of rules processing onto the game. It's not like in 4e where you have fairly discrete rules for your character most of the time. Now you have fifteen different rules for what you can do, and that's going to add a considerable amount of handling time to combat. 3e showed that rather well. Again, if you're getting three completely different responses, there's something SERIOUSLY wrong here. And why would you go to different specialists for the same problem? But, in any case, if the first guy tells you you have a slipped disk, the second guy says you have appendicitis, and the third guy is talking about your spleen, you REALLY need to find a real doctor. :D Now you're moving the goalposts though. As you said, I would expect different results from entirely different genres and games. I would not expect D&D to work the same as Vampire or GURPS. That's a given. However, if two groups are playing D&D, and they are doing fairly common D&D actions, such as trying to hit something with a lumpy metal thing, then I would expect the responses to be pretty darn close. Even your example of talking to the guard, should get fairly reasonably close responses from the DM - you make your bluff/diplomacy check and go from there. I wouldn't expect, however, to suddenly have to roll a D100 and compare to my combined CHA and Diplomacy scores. The trick though is that the wizard will NEVER spam magic missiles. He's got a bajillion different tricks in his bag, most of which are significantly BETTER than magic missile. As he goes up levels, his tricks all get more powerful. The fighter's tricks actually get LESS powerful as he goes up levels - tripping is great at 1st level, far less useful at 10th level and virtually impossible to pull off at 20th because the monster's are virtually untrippable due to size and other bonuses. Unless, of course, the fighter laser beam focuses on trip to the exclusion of virtually anything else. [/QUOTE]
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4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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