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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7526540" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Alright, so we've gone over Monster Reaction Rolls vs intentional GM pressure on thematic portfolio.</p><p></p><p>Let us get back to how this may work out in 4e. To recap:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Quite clearly, we have a Star Wars like situation where a group of NPCs in vehicles are threatening the PCs. The Wizard begins with a request for parley in their Far Realm language. The commander probably opens and peers out of the hatch of an AT-ST esque vehicle and presents an offer from his superiors. Maybe one of (or more) of the thematic interests of the PCs' will be spared if they cease with their disruption of operations.</p><p></p><p>Naturally, the Wizard opens with a Suggestion (from NCS) that pushes the envelope; bartering for some further concession. Arcana would be +25ish, so DC 29 would likely be passed. </p><p></p><p>The alien agrees to present this further concession to his leadership, but only if the PCs' gift him <em>n </em>Residuum (equal to 1/10 of an of-level, 23, magic item), half of which he'll take for his troubles and the other half he'll present to his leadership for as a token of good faith. </p><p></p><p>Mechanically, the above would basically open up that offer as an automatic success or failure if they insult him by declining.</p><p></p><p>So the Wizard explains the offer to the the Fighter and Rogue. They aren't having it. The Fighter asks the Wizard how to say "you'll take this offer back to your leadership or I'll take <em>n </em>Residuum out of your ass." </p><p></p><p>As he's saying it, he cleaves the earth with his Greatsword and a crease in the earth zig zags from the feet of the Fighter to the "feet" of the AT-AT like vehicle. </p><p></p><p>Mechanically, this would be the Fighter deploying Athletics as the lone Secondary Skill to augment his Primary Check of Intimidate (with Steely Persuasion being a +3 Prof +5 Enc buff to Intimidate). The Fighter's Athletics check would be similar to the Arcana for the Wizard so it would automatically pass the Easy DC for a +2 to the Primary Intimidate. That would be a +10 buff. A Fighter being trained in Intimidate (the Fighter in my 1-30 game was and also had Steely Persuasion) is likely so it would probably be something like +21 unbuffed so +31 for this check. Leaning on the Wizard's ability to speak the language, I'll give him the Medium DC, so that would be Success 2 with the accrued failure simultaneously for insulting the alien by denying his offer (in the fiction a greased palm and token of good faith, mechanically 1/10 the value of a level 23 magic item).</p><p></p><p>So here we would be 2 Successes and 1 Failure.</p><p></p><p>I think for this insult and threat, I would likely have the Alien commander blanch with a mix of fearful trepidation and simmering annoyance. The latter gets the better of him and he issues a command to his infantry forces to "fire a warning laser into his chest." Something to reassert dominance of position in this social transaction. </p><p></p><p>Now the Wizard maybe has some kind of Immediate Action "force-field" that he could deploy to intercept this laser beam. However, mechanically, that would be at the High DC as Arcana has already been used. That would mean something like a 14ish roll would be required. If its an Encounter Power, I'd give him +2 for the clever use, but those still aren't great odds. If he had a Daily to deploy, I'd give him an auto-success.</p><p></p><p>The Fighter could just accept the blow, trusting his armor and his fortitude to do the heavy lifting. Endurance would almost surely be trained and would probably be something like a +22ish unbuffed, so only a 7 required.</p><p></p><p>What do folks think the Rogue might offer here to deal with this (I can think of a few, but I'm curious what others might come up with) and at what modifier?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7526540, member: 6696971"] Alright, so we've gone over Monster Reaction Rolls vs intentional GM pressure on thematic portfolio. Let us get back to how this may work out in 4e. To recap: Quite clearly, we have a Star Wars like situation where a group of NPCs in vehicles are threatening the PCs. The Wizard begins with a request for parley in their Far Realm language. The commander probably opens and peers out of the hatch of an AT-ST esque vehicle and presents an offer from his superiors. Maybe one of (or more) of the thematic interests of the PCs' will be spared if they cease with their disruption of operations. Naturally, the Wizard opens with a Suggestion (from NCS) that pushes the envelope; bartering for some further concession. Arcana would be +25ish, so DC 29 would likely be passed. The alien agrees to present this further concession to his leadership, but only if the PCs' gift him [I]n [/I]Residuum (equal to 1/10 of an of-level, 23, magic item), half of which he'll take for his troubles and the other half he'll present to his leadership for as a token of good faith. Mechanically, the above would basically open up that offer as an automatic success or failure if they insult him by declining. So the Wizard explains the offer to the the Fighter and Rogue. They aren't having it. The Fighter asks the Wizard how to say "you'll take this offer back to your leadership or I'll take [I]n [/I]Residuum out of your ass." As he's saying it, he cleaves the earth with his Greatsword and a crease in the earth zig zags from the feet of the Fighter to the "feet" of the AT-AT like vehicle. Mechanically, this would be the Fighter deploying Athletics as the lone Secondary Skill to augment his Primary Check of Intimidate (with Steely Persuasion being a +3 Prof +5 Enc buff to Intimidate). The Fighter's Athletics check would be similar to the Arcana for the Wizard so it would automatically pass the Easy DC for a +2 to the Primary Intimidate. That would be a +10 buff. A Fighter being trained in Intimidate (the Fighter in my 1-30 game was and also had Steely Persuasion) is likely so it would probably be something like +21 unbuffed so +31 for this check. Leaning on the Wizard's ability to speak the language, I'll give him the Medium DC, so that would be Success 2 with the accrued failure simultaneously for insulting the alien by denying his offer (in the fiction a greased palm and token of good faith, mechanically 1/10 the value of a level 23 magic item). So here we would be 2 Successes and 1 Failure. I think for this insult and threat, I would likely have the Alien commander blanch with a mix of fearful trepidation and simmering annoyance. The latter gets the better of him and he issues a command to his infantry forces to "fire a warning laser into his chest." Something to reassert dominance of position in this social transaction. Now the Wizard maybe has some kind of Immediate Action "force-field" that he could deploy to intercept this laser beam. However, mechanically, that would be at the High DC as Arcana has already been used. That would mean something like a 14ish roll would be required. If its an Encounter Power, I'd give him +2 for the clever use, but those still aren't great odds. If he had a Daily to deploy, I'd give him an auto-success. The Fighter could just accept the blow, trusting his armor and his fortitude to do the heavy lifting. Endurance would almost surely be trained and would probably be something like a +22ish unbuffed, so only a 7 required. What do folks think the Rogue might offer here to deal with this (I can think of a few, but I'm curious what others might come up with) and at what modifier? [/QUOTE]
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