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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7528121" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Agreed. This is completely true. My take on this was they just had to formulate stuff in books for adventure design. Later books and Dungeon Magazine spoke out against this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, but all of this is utterly untrue. Utterly so.</p><p></p><p>Again, if the fictional situation doesn't support an action declaration or a genre trope by way of action declaration...its simple. Its not doable. And (I already addressed this above but apparently you didn't read it?) much of the problem's reported on this issue is completely GM timidity or inexperience in scene framing or evolving a scenario/changing a situation aggressively and dynamically. GMs have to do a good job at running interesting noncombat challenges and evolving them dynamically post-resolution. If they don't...that is on them.</p><p></p><p>As far as Fail Forward goes:</p><p></p><p>1) Its not a mechanic. Its a GM technique.</p><p></p><p>2) Its bloody everywhere in 4e!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not to mention the fact that the man who primarily conceived 4e (Rob Heinsoo) created 13th Age with Jonathon Tweet once he had to exit stage left from WotC...and that game specifically prescribes Fail Forward as the exclusive method for noncombat resolution.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7528121, member: 6696971"] Agreed. This is completely true. My take on this was they just had to formulate stuff in books for adventure design. Later books and Dungeon Magazine spoke out against this. I'm sorry, but all of this is utterly untrue. Utterly so. Again, if the fictional situation doesn't support an action declaration or a genre trope by way of action declaration...its simple. Its not doable. And (I already addressed this above but apparently you didn't read it?) much of the problem's reported on this issue is completely GM timidity or inexperience in scene framing or evolving a scenario/changing a situation aggressively and dynamically. GMs have to do a good job at running interesting noncombat challenges and evolving them dynamically post-resolution. If they don't...that is on them. As far as Fail Forward goes: 1) Its not a mechanic. Its a GM technique. 2) Its bloody everywhere in 4e! Not to mention the fact that the man who primarily conceived 4e (Rob Heinsoo) created 13th Age with Jonathon Tweet once he had to exit stage left from WotC...and that game specifically prescribes Fail Forward as the exclusive method for noncombat resolution. [/QUOTE]
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4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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