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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7532957" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, exactly... There isn't any such thing as being outside of a challenge! If you aren't in a challenge then there is no conflict, and NO GAME, just people talking! I mean, in HoML you can have an 'interlude' but it is just that, a connector between scenes (IE it might be a montage, or just players hobnobbing, etc.). Now, interludes can be narratively useful and lead to the generation of new conflicts, but all actual 'game play' happens within the conflict/challenge paradigm. </p><p></p><p>The other thing about HoML is that it actually achieves the math parity goal of 4e, non-combat checks have EXACTLY the same math as combat rolls do. This greatly opens up the system in terms of what can happen. You can suddenly employ a skill check against a defense and it would have parity with an attack (something that generally won't work in 4e). Likewise you could use an attack mechanic in a skill challenge and it would 'just work'. </p><p></p><p>So, actually, the mechanical parity and consistency is there. There's no 'special zone' that is the only time combat can happen, thinking that would be incorrect, and really it isn't even true of 4e itself, unless you restrict your thinking too much when you run it. In fact I would say one of the enemies of good 4e GMing is the process that was ingrained by AD&D, roll initiative! lol.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7532957, member: 82106"] Well, exactly... There isn't any such thing as being outside of a challenge! If you aren't in a challenge then there is no conflict, and NO GAME, just people talking! I mean, in HoML you can have an 'interlude' but it is just that, a connector between scenes (IE it might be a montage, or just players hobnobbing, etc.). Now, interludes can be narratively useful and lead to the generation of new conflicts, but all actual 'game play' happens within the conflict/challenge paradigm. The other thing about HoML is that it actually achieves the math parity goal of 4e, non-combat checks have EXACTLY the same math as combat rolls do. This greatly opens up the system in terms of what can happen. You can suddenly employ a skill check against a defense and it would have parity with an attack (something that generally won't work in 4e). Likewise you could use an attack mechanic in a skill challenge and it would 'just work'. So, actually, the mechanical parity and consistency is there. There's no 'special zone' that is the only time combat can happen, thinking that would be incorrect, and really it isn't even true of 4e itself, unless you restrict your thinking too much when you run it. In fact I would say one of the enemies of good 4e GMing is the process that was ingrained by AD&D, roll initiative! lol. [/QUOTE]
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4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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