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D&D Older Editions
4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7537129" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>I think one thing that should be pretty clear in terms of Trad D&D (I'm using AD&D 1e and B/X and the analog approach to 5e for this ) juxtaposed against 4e is pretty straight-forward:</p><p></p><p>As a player of a martial character (in this case Fighter or Rogue/Thief) engaging with the last two scenes, you would be dealing with some serious unknowns when evaluating your action declarations and, even when you know, often knowing means the GM has said "no" or has afforded you some low % odds of success such that the opportunity cost just doesn't make it a reasonable approach.</p><p></p><p>Examples:</p><p></p><p>* If you're a 1e Fighter dealing with the "take over the lead tank" challenge, best of luck in determining your odds and the attendant opportunity cost of spending your action economy on just deploying your significant damage capability via mere attacking. There is a fair chance that the GM says something like "roll 50 % (leap atop the ATST) > Bend Bars/Lift Gates - 10 % (even an 18/00 would be at only 30 %!) > combat inside vs enough HP tank crew that its more than a few rounds to deal with them > roll under Int - 5 (to sort out the alien tech) which is probably something like a 30 % chance.</p><p></p><p>* Neither the 1e nor B/X Thief has any chance whatsoever to deal with the melee responsibilities of the 4e Rogue in the above combat with the tanks/hoverpods (swashbuckling/skirmishing around the battlefield, deploying a ton of damage, running interference, and self-buffing with active rider buffs and immediate actions).</p><p></p><p>* If you're playing B/X, you're hoping the GM is generous with a 2 out of 6 rather than the default 1 out of 6 when trying to discern the alien tech to fly the hoverpods. Even then, you're just looking at a 33 % chance vs 16.5 %! But you're doing better than the 1e Fighter/Rogue who has to sift through the many layers of Gygaxian prose and discrete and not-well-integrated components of the rulebook to read the tea leaves on how to adjudicate both control and aerial combat! And that isn't even considering the burden placed upon the GM to sort this all out!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7537129, member: 6696971"] I think one thing that should be pretty clear in terms of Trad D&D (I'm using AD&D 1e and B/X and the analog approach to 5e for this ) juxtaposed against 4e is pretty straight-forward: As a player of a martial character (in this case Fighter or Rogue/Thief) engaging with the last two scenes, you would be dealing with some serious unknowns when evaluating your action declarations and, even when you know, often knowing means the GM has said "no" or has afforded you some low % odds of success such that the opportunity cost just doesn't make it a reasonable approach. Examples: * If you're a 1e Fighter dealing with the "take over the lead tank" challenge, best of luck in determining your odds and the attendant opportunity cost of spending your action economy on just deploying your significant damage capability via mere attacking. There is a fair chance that the GM says something like "roll 50 % (leap atop the ATST) > Bend Bars/Lift Gates - 10 % (even an 18/00 would be at only 30 %!) > combat inside vs enough HP tank crew that its more than a few rounds to deal with them > roll under Int - 5 (to sort out the alien tech) which is probably something like a 30 % chance. * Neither the 1e nor B/X Thief has any chance whatsoever to deal with the melee responsibilities of the 4e Rogue in the above combat with the tanks/hoverpods (swashbuckling/skirmishing around the battlefield, deploying a ton of damage, running interference, and self-buffing with active rider buffs and immediate actions). * If you're playing B/X, you're hoping the GM is generous with a 2 out of 6 rather than the default 1 out of 6 when trying to discern the alien tech to fly the hoverpods. Even then, you're just looking at a 33 % chance vs 16.5 %! But you're doing better than the 1e Fighter/Rogue who has to sift through the many layers of Gygaxian prose and discrete and not-well-integrated components of the rulebook to read the tea leaves on how to adjudicate both control and aerial combat! And that isn't even considering the burden placed upon the GM to sort this all out! [/QUOTE]
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