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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6870472" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Here is what Tony is getting at.</p><p></p><p>Imagine you're GMing AD&D 2e and you feel like the modern game has left you behind. How does 5e appeal to you?</p><p></p><p>1) Action resolution requires your absolute mediation. You vet every aspect of it from (a) is this a legit action declaration, (b) is there prospects for failure, (c) do I use genre, drama, causal logic to determine DC, (d) how discrete (temporal and spatial) do I want to make each action, (e) the nature of failure resolution is entirely GM discretion (outside of the vagaries of fun and interesting). </p><p></p><p>Lots and lots and lots of GM overhead! But lots and lots and lots of (a certain kind of) "empowerment!"</p><p></p><p>2) Related directly to 1 (and this utterly key and you all may have read my posts regarding this in the playtest and after release), the prospects for using GM Force, especially covertly, are right there on the table for me to deploy. Not only does the "natural language" text and the "rulings not rules" ethos support this, but the agenda for play (like AD&D 2e) tacitly condones suspension, abridgment, or (secret) manipulation of the action resolution mechanics if I feel it makes a better story.</p><p></p><p>3) The game was intentionally removed from 4e's scene-based paradigm (from game engine/tech to play agenda and GMing techniques) and constructed around the serial exploration of the adventuring day. Further, very much like AD&D 2e, there isn't a default/unstrippable pacing mechanism at the core to dictate/escalate the adventuring day (the random encounter framework). That is key. Now its all you. Unless you want to make your own and offload it. But again, that is on you too.</p><p></p><p>4) The encounter building rules don't work with anything resembling precision. Therefore, the GM can manipulate all kinds of things on the fly and have that be much more opaque to their players (see 2).</p><p></p><p>5) Magic items detached from PC build and offloaded back to GM purview.</p><p></p><p>6) Finally (and I never experienced this but I guess it was "a thing" because there was all kinds of edition warring hand-ringing over it), the culture of "everything is core" got nuked. The GM must vet all content entering his/her game and reserves all rights to veto material.</p><p></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p></p><p>I think that about sums it up? Not the kind of empowerment (latitude + overhead) I'm looking for. But its bringing back the AD&D 2e crowd in droves. * Which I said it would in the beginning/middle of the playtest when the nature of the surveys and the nature of the rules changes were coming out. </p><p></p><p>And I was called out for edition warring. </p><p></p><p>And then many of the same people who decried me for edition warring (along with tons of other AD&D2e playes who have returned) have been championing it as a modernized AD&D2e (which they love).</p><p></p><p>That is called irony.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">* Which my guess is that bringing them back and unifying them with the 3.x/PF crowd was a tacit (if not utterly explicit behind the scenes) directive from the outset (and a smart one to be honest). I think that was the "big tent" that was in mind.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6870472, member: 6696971"] Here is what Tony is getting at. Imagine you're GMing AD&D 2e and you feel like the modern game has left you behind. How does 5e appeal to you? 1) Action resolution requires your absolute mediation. You vet every aspect of it from (a) is this a legit action declaration, (b) is there prospects for failure, (c) do I use genre, drama, causal logic to determine DC, (d) how discrete (temporal and spatial) do I want to make each action, (e) the nature of failure resolution is entirely GM discretion (outside of the vagaries of fun and interesting). Lots and lots and lots of GM overhead! But lots and lots and lots of (a certain kind of) "empowerment!" 2) Related directly to 1 (and this utterly key and you all may have read my posts regarding this in the playtest and after release), the prospects for using GM Force, especially covertly, are right there on the table for me to deploy. Not only does the "natural language" text and the "rulings not rules" ethos support this, but the agenda for play (like AD&D 2e) tacitly condones suspension, abridgment, or (secret) manipulation of the action resolution mechanics if I feel it makes a better story. 3) The game was intentionally removed from 4e's scene-based paradigm (from game engine/tech to play agenda and GMing techniques) and constructed around the serial exploration of the adventuring day. Further, very much like AD&D 2e, there isn't a default/unstrippable pacing mechanism at the core to dictate/escalate the adventuring day (the random encounter framework). That is key. Now its all you. Unless you want to make your own and offload it. But again, that is on you too. 4) The encounter building rules don't work with anything resembling precision. Therefore, the GM can manipulate all kinds of things on the fly and have that be much more opaque to their players (see 2). 5) Magic items detached from PC build and offloaded back to GM purview. 6) Finally (and I never experienced this but I guess it was "a thing" because there was all kinds of edition warring hand-ringing over it), the culture of "everything is core" got nuked. The GM must vet all content entering his/her game and reserves all rights to veto material. [HR][/HR] I think that about sums it up? Not the kind of empowerment (latitude + overhead) I'm looking for. But its bringing back the AD&D 2e crowd in droves. * Which I said it would in the beginning/middle of the playtest when the nature of the surveys and the nature of the rules changes were coming out. And I was called out for edition warring. And then many of the same people who decried me for edition warring (along with tons of other AD&D2e playes who have returned) have been championing it as a modernized AD&D2e (which they love). That is called irony. [SIZE=1]* Which my guess is that bringing them back and unifying them with the 3.x/PF crowd was a tacit (if not utterly explicit behind the scenes) directive from the outset (and a smart one to be honest). I think that was the "big tent" that was in mind.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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