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General Tabletop Discussion
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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6872434" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Not the same issue at all. It's not that 5e has DM-moderated 'just better' magic items, <em>as well as</em> make/buy items as a component of player-designed 'builds,' it's that it has DM-moderated items <em>instead of[i/] make/buy items. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>It's DM empowerment, but, IMHO, one thing 5e got wrong was building for DM empowerment as if 'empowerment' were 0-sum. That, in order to empower DMs they had to disenfranchise players.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>It guess it's a little odd to 'return' to something you just made up. In that sense, I guess 4e 'returned to Class Roles' and 3e 'returned to system mastery.' </em></p><p><em><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></em></p><p><em></em></p><p> <em>DM discretion or DM judgment is a foundation for the brand of DM Empowerment offered by 5e, yes.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The way I explained it at the time was that 4e didn't seem to "support" certain playstyles because it no longer forced or over-rewarded those styles. They still worked, they were just no longer subsidized, so you weren't guaranteed that everyone would be accepting of the way you were accustomed to leveraging the game in your favor. It was a very narrow-minded and self-serving complaint, yet because it could be phrased as wanting 'more playstyles supported,' it sounded politically correct and gained traction. And 5e was based on servicing the phrasing of the complaint as much as the reality of it, so ...</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6872434, member: 996"] Not the same issue at all. It's not that 5e has DM-moderated 'just better' magic items, [i]as well as[/I] make/buy items as a component of player-designed 'builds,' it's that it has DM-moderated items [i]instead of[i/] make/buy items. It's DM empowerment, but, IMHO, one thing 5e got wrong was building for DM empowerment as if 'empowerment' were 0-sum. That, in order to empower DMs they had to disenfranchise players. It guess it's a little odd to 'return' to something you just made up. In that sense, I guess 4e 'returned to Class Roles' and 3e 'returned to system mastery.' ;) DM discretion or DM judgment is a foundation for the brand of DM Empowerment offered by 5e, yes. The way I explained it at the time was that 4e didn't seem to "support" certain playstyles because it no longer forced or over-rewarded those styles. They still worked, they were just no longer subsidized, so you weren't guaranteed that everyone would be accepting of the way you were accustomed to leveraging the game in your favor. It was a very narrow-minded and self-serving complaint, yet because it could be phrased as wanting 'more playstyles supported,' it sounded politically correct and gained traction. And 5e was based on servicing the phrasing of the complaint as much as the reality of it, so ... [/i] [/QUOTE]
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