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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6884735" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Right, so getting to it would obviously become the challenge at that point...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, its not clear that the 'space requirement' is ALSO a "can block this much space" factor. In fact there's no real evidence to support the notion that it was supposed to work that way. I can attest that in the OLD days, pre-1980 D&D play, that it was considered normal to require 3 fighters abreast to block a 10' corridor. If they had large (IE 2-handed) weapons, then we usually decided you could block 2 abreast vs 3. I know of no rule for any of this, though AD&D does clearly introduce an amount of 'frontage', the space required, that you MUST have. </p><p></p><p>But beyond that is all mystery. There's NOTHING that defines what the criteria are for someone to be considered 'engaged'. Does it mean "came within weapon reach (and is that = to space required) of an opponent"? Perhaps... Can an opponent specify some sort of enhanced area of control via some statement like "I will stop anyone from passing" and how would that actually operate mechanically? Can a character engage more than one opponent? Can he make more than one "parting shot"? NONE of this is defined. </p><p></p><p>2e DOES indeed introduce grapple and overbear as additional factors, though the rules implementing them are so laughably unworkable as to effectively not exist. Presumably you could also adjudicate "rushing" (IE like a charge but with the idea of just pushing people or going past them) but you'd have to decide how to rule that.</p><p></p><p>The problem is that AD&D's combat system is actually ENTIRELY a 'narrative' sort of system. It isn't made up of any kind of comprehensive rules framework. Its more like a 'chocolate chip cookie', there's a lot rules embedded in there, but most of the bulk of the thing is actually just a sort of unspoken "make it work". So the answer to "can I just go right by the orc blocking the door" is "No, how would that be possible, describle it narratively and THEN we'll know if its allowed" The ultimate point being, you can't talk about what characters can and cannot do in AD&D combat. It is literally not a topic of objective discussion because AD&D doesn't HAVE combat rules. It has some disjoint systems that can be used together to produce a combat narrative, but its not rules in anything like the way 3e, 4e or even 5e (mostly) mean by rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6884735, member: 82106"] Right, so getting to it would obviously become the challenge at that point... Yeah, its not clear that the 'space requirement' is ALSO a "can block this much space" factor. In fact there's no real evidence to support the notion that it was supposed to work that way. I can attest that in the OLD days, pre-1980 D&D play, that it was considered normal to require 3 fighters abreast to block a 10' corridor. If they had large (IE 2-handed) weapons, then we usually decided you could block 2 abreast vs 3. I know of no rule for any of this, though AD&D does clearly introduce an amount of 'frontage', the space required, that you MUST have. But beyond that is all mystery. There's NOTHING that defines what the criteria are for someone to be considered 'engaged'. Does it mean "came within weapon reach (and is that = to space required) of an opponent"? Perhaps... Can an opponent specify some sort of enhanced area of control via some statement like "I will stop anyone from passing" and how would that actually operate mechanically? Can a character engage more than one opponent? Can he make more than one "parting shot"? NONE of this is defined. 2e DOES indeed introduce grapple and overbear as additional factors, though the rules implementing them are so laughably unworkable as to effectively not exist. Presumably you could also adjudicate "rushing" (IE like a charge but with the idea of just pushing people or going past them) but you'd have to decide how to rule that. The problem is that AD&D's combat system is actually ENTIRELY a 'narrative' sort of system. It isn't made up of any kind of comprehensive rules framework. Its more like a 'chocolate chip cookie', there's a lot rules embedded in there, but most of the bulk of the thing is actually just a sort of unspoken "make it work". So the answer to "can I just go right by the orc blocking the door" is "No, how would that be possible, describle it narratively and THEN we'll know if its allowed" The ultimate point being, you can't talk about what characters can and cannot do in AD&D combat. It is literally not a topic of objective discussion because AD&D doesn't HAVE combat rules. It has some disjoint systems that can be used together to produce a combat narrative, but its not rules in anything like the way 3e, 4e or even 5e (mostly) mean by rules. [/QUOTE]
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