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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6885780" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm not going to try and disprove your thesis about AD&D and rules (and I'm not sure I would want to).</p><p></p><p>All I'm going to do is point to some of the passages that inform my understanding of how it works. (A bit like 4e skill challenges, the rules/advice is somewhat scattered across multiple books and sections.)</p><p></p><p>First, spacing (3 people per 10' frontage):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Figure bases are necessarily broad in order to assure that the figures will stand in the proper position and not constantly be falling over. Because of this, it is usually necessary to use a ground scale twice that of the actual scale . . . and squares of about 1 actual inch per side are suggested. Each ground scale inch can then be used to equal 3½ linear feet, so a 10' wide scale corridor is 3 actual inches in width and shown as 3 separate squares. This allows depiction of the typical array of three figures abreast . . . (DMG, p 10)</p><p></p><p>Second, engagement (melee engagement occurs within 10'):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Close To Striking Range</strong> . . . This action is typically taken when the opponent is over 1" distant but not a long distance away. . . . [M]elee is not possible. (DMG p 66 - closing rules)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The opponent must be within 10' distance at the termination of the charge in order for any blows to be struck during that round. (DMG, p 66 - charging rules)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">At the end of any movement portion where any number of the pursued party is within 10' or less of any number of the pursuing party, confrontation must take place between the concerned members of the parties. (DMG, p 68 - evasion and pursuit rules)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Next the DM checks distance, and finds that the parties are only 10' apart - sufficiently near to close and strike. (DMG, p 71 - example of combat)</p><p></p><p>Third, stickiness:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Falling back is a retrograde move facing the opponent(s) and can be used in conjunction with a parry, and opponent creatures are able to follow if not otherwise engaged. Fleeing means as rapid a withdrawal from combat as possible; while it exposes the character to rear attack at the time, subsequent attacks can only be made if the opponent is able to follow the fleeing character at equal or greater speed. (PHB, 104-105)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">It is always possible to flee from on undesired confrontation if the other party is surprised. It is never possible to flee from on encounter where the opponent party is in striking range. (See <strong>Breaking Off From Melee</strong>, below.) A party can always flee an encounter if it gains the first initiative. (DMG, p 63 - rules for avoiding engagement)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">At such time as any creature decides, it can break off the engagement and flee the melee. To do so, however, allows the opponent a free attack or attack routine. This attack is calculated as if it were a rear attack upon a stunned opponent. When this attack is completed, the retiring/fleeing party may move away at full movement rate, and unless the opponent pursues and is able to move at a higher rate of speed, the melee is ended and the situation becomes one of encounter avoidance. (DMG, p 70 - rules for breaking off from melee</p><p></p><p>The picture this makes for me is that once you're inside 10' you're engaged in melee, and (unless you have the benefit of surprise) you can't run away without drawing a free attack routine from your opponent. You <em>can</em> fall back, but your opponent can follow without penalty (unless engaged by someone else) and so the situation won't have changed from one of melee to one of evasion and pursuit.</p><p></p><p>I feel this picture is reinforced by the general "all in" character of melee:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>t is generally not possible to select a specific opponent in a mass melee. If this is the case, simply use some random number generation to find out which attacks are upon which opponents, remembering that only a certain number of attacks can usually be made upon one opponent. If characters or similar intelligent creatures are able to single out an opponent or opponents, then the concerned figures will remain locked in melee until one side is dead or opts to attempt to break off the combat. If there are unengaged opponents, they will move to melee the unengaged enemy. If the now-unengaged figures desire to assist others of their party, they will have to proceed to the area in which their fellows are engaged, using the movement rates already expressed. (DMG, p 70)</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>In fact, as far as I can tell there is no movement in melee (other than falling back or fleeing). You can close to striking range (and not attack) or charge (and attack, and potentially trigger attacks from set weapons). But once you are engaged, you are locked in melee until someone dies, falls back without being followed, or flees.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Taken as a whole, this certainly seems to me to imply no "conga lines of death" and a high degree of "stickiness".</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6885780, member: 42582"] I'm not going to try and disprove your thesis about AD&D and rules (and I'm not sure I would want to). All I'm going to do is point to some of the passages that inform my understanding of how it works. (A bit like 4e skill challenges, the rules/advice is somewhat scattered across multiple books and sections.) First, spacing (3 people per 10' frontage): [indent]Figure bases are necessarily broad in order to assure that the figures will stand in the proper position and not constantly be falling over. Because of this, it is usually necessary to use a ground scale twice that of the actual scale . . . and squares of about 1 actual inch per side are suggested. Each ground scale inch can then be used to equal 3½ linear feet, so a 10' wide scale corridor is 3 actual inches in width and shown as 3 separate squares. This allows depiction of the typical array of three figures abreast . . . (DMG, p 10)[/indent] Second, engagement (melee engagement occurs within 10'): [indent][B]Close To Striking Range[/B] . . . This action is typically taken when the opponent is over 1" distant but not a long distance away. . . . [M]elee is not possible. (DMG p 66 - closing rules) The opponent must be within 10' distance at the termination of the charge in order for any blows to be struck during that round. (DMG, p 66 - charging rules) At the end of any movement portion where any number of the pursued party is within 10' or less of any number of the pursuing party, confrontation must take place between the concerned members of the parties. (DMG, p 68 - evasion and pursuit rules) Next the DM checks distance, and finds that the parties are only 10' apart - sufficiently near to close and strike. (DMG, p 71 - example of combat)[/indent] Third, stickiness: [indent]Falling back is a retrograde move facing the opponent(s) and can be used in conjunction with a parry, and opponent creatures are able to follow if not otherwise engaged. Fleeing means as rapid a withdrawal from combat as possible; while it exposes the character to rear attack at the time, subsequent attacks can only be made if the opponent is able to follow the fleeing character at equal or greater speed. (PHB, 104-105) It is always possible to flee from on undesired confrontation if the other party is surprised. It is never possible to flee from on encounter where the opponent party is in striking range. (See [B]Breaking Off From Melee[/B], below.) A party can always flee an encounter if it gains the first initiative. (DMG, p 63 - rules for avoiding engagement) At such time as any creature decides, it can break off the engagement and flee the melee. To do so, however, allows the opponent a free attack or attack routine. This attack is calculated as if it were a rear attack upon a stunned opponent. When this attack is completed, the retiring/fleeing party may move away at full movement rate, and unless the opponent pursues and is able to move at a higher rate of speed, the melee is ended and the situation becomes one of encounter avoidance. (DMG, p 70 - rules for breaking off from melee[/indent] The picture this makes for me is that once you're inside 10' you're engaged in melee, and (unless you have the benefit of surprise) you can't run away without drawing a free attack routine from your opponent. You [I]can[/I] fall back, but your opponent can follow without penalty (unless engaged by someone else) and so the situation won't have changed from one of melee to one of evasion and pursuit. I feel this picture is reinforced by the general "all in" character of melee: [indent][I]t is generally not possible to select a specific opponent in a mass melee. If this is the case, simply use some random number generation to find out which attacks are upon which opponents, remembering that only a certain number of attacks can usually be made upon one opponent. If characters or similar intelligent creatures are able to single out an opponent or opponents, then the concerned figures will remain locked in melee until one side is dead or opts to attempt to break off the combat. If there are unengaged opponents, they will move to melee the unengaged enemy. If the now-unengaged figures desire to assist others of their party, they will have to proceed to the area in which their fellows are engaged, using the movement rates already expressed. (DMG, p 70)[/I][/indent][I] In fact, as far as I can tell there is no movement in melee (other than falling back or fleeing). You can close to striking range (and not attack) or charge (and attack, and potentially trigger attacks from set weapons). But once you are engaged, you are locked in melee until someone dies, falls back without being followed, or flees. Taken as a whole, this certainly seems to me to imply no "conga lines of death" and a high degree of "stickiness".[/i] [/QUOTE]
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