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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6886044" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Yes, I understand all this. I agree that there aren't 'konga lines of death' in AD&D combat by any reasonable interpretation of the system. Once you ARE engaged in melee (whatever constitutes that) you're STUCK there. Whether some degree of moving around is possible is VERY much open to interpretation however. I mean, one of your quotes distinctly talks about "proceed to the area" etc, but it doesn't explain how that would be possible. Nor is it AT ALL clear just how much one character can engage, one enemy? Many enemies? Limitless numbers of enemies? What happens with anyone beyond that limit, can they simply 'pass through' where the enemy is? None of this is clearly spelled out in AD&D AT ALL. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>What AD&D, inherited from OD&D, assumes is a table top miniatures play type understanding of units, frontages, movement, and control of space. This stuff IS spelled out in Chainmail, its the core of the rules OF Chainmail! When D&D incrementally jettisoned Chainmail as its explicit rule system it didn't replace this understanding with anything. In 1e (and 2e) the game ASSUMES a lot of the rules that are explicit in Chainmail but doesn't actually incorporate them anywhere in the text of the rules! Nor does it tell you "go use Chainmail for this". Gygax just 'did it' and he wasn't particularly careful about writing down the baseline fundamental underlying assumptions of how play was carried out. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The closest AD&D ever comes is the 'spacing' quote you found (good catch, most people don't ever notice that). Its still not at all clear. All it basically boils down to is "a figure more-or-less occupies a 3.3' wide space" with no explanation of how that would relate to weapon frontage/required space, nor size of the figure, nor if it is an absolute, a maximum, a minimum, or what. Again, if you go back to Chainmail this is all clearly spelled out (albeit the ground scale is different and a figure represents 10 creatures, not one by default). </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The upshot is there's a sort of rough idea of what should happen, and most tables have a basic consensus about it, but there isn't really a hard and fast rule. A player could pretty much expect his character to be able to completely block a 3.3' wide space and make one enemy 'stick' to him if it comes within 10' (again this is loose though, is it really ALWAYS 10'?). You could justifiably argue this much, but no more, and even this much is SURELY subject to DM interpretation based on the detailed situation.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6886044, member: 82106"] [I] Yes, I understand all this. I agree that there aren't 'konga lines of death' in AD&D combat by any reasonable interpretation of the system. Once you ARE engaged in melee (whatever constitutes that) you're STUCK there. Whether some degree of moving around is possible is VERY much open to interpretation however. I mean, one of your quotes distinctly talks about "proceed to the area" etc, but it doesn't explain how that would be possible. Nor is it AT ALL clear just how much one character can engage, one enemy? Many enemies? Limitless numbers of enemies? What happens with anyone beyond that limit, can they simply 'pass through' where the enemy is? None of this is clearly spelled out in AD&D AT ALL. What AD&D, inherited from OD&D, assumes is a table top miniatures play type understanding of units, frontages, movement, and control of space. This stuff IS spelled out in Chainmail, its the core of the rules OF Chainmail! When D&D incrementally jettisoned Chainmail as its explicit rule system it didn't replace this understanding with anything. In 1e (and 2e) the game ASSUMES a lot of the rules that are explicit in Chainmail but doesn't actually incorporate them anywhere in the text of the rules! Nor does it tell you "go use Chainmail for this". Gygax just 'did it' and he wasn't particularly careful about writing down the baseline fundamental underlying assumptions of how play was carried out. The closest AD&D ever comes is the 'spacing' quote you found (good catch, most people don't ever notice that). Its still not at all clear. All it basically boils down to is "a figure more-or-less occupies a 3.3' wide space" with no explanation of how that would relate to weapon frontage/required space, nor size of the figure, nor if it is an absolute, a maximum, a minimum, or what. Again, if you go back to Chainmail this is all clearly spelled out (albeit the ground scale is different and a figure represents 10 creatures, not one by default). The upshot is there's a sort of rough idea of what should happen, and most tables have a basic consensus about it, but there isn't really a hard and fast rule. A player could pretty much expect his character to be able to completely block a 3.3' wide space and make one enemy 'stick' to him if it comes within 10' (again this is loose though, is it really ALWAYS 10'?). You could justifiably argue this much, but no more, and even this much is SURELY subject to DM interpretation based on the detailed situation.[/i] [/QUOTE]
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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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