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4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6886080" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I recall the DMG having an optional "If its 10 levels below you, or under 1 hit die" rule, yes. Its not a bad rule, and gives fighters a bit of something extra (which they badly need!). Where things would get ambiguous was situations like say where 2 characters are engaged with a troll. Can the troll be said to 'engage' both of them, or is one simply free to move away? Do the 'parting shots' count as the other parties' normal attack routine, or can they make an entire EXTRA set of attacks on top of "from the back as if stunned" (which against a fighter with a shield is AT LEAST the equivalent of getting +5 to all your attacks, and probably more). Would parting shots be 'split' (IE if 2 guys retreat from a troll does it get C/C/B against BOTH OF THEM, or just 3 attacks split in some way, or does it even get to try to follow both). </p><p></p><p>Its also not clear in what sense missile fire for instance would 'cover a retreat'. If one character flees or 'disengages' is the opponent not still locked in melee given that it is now in pursuit? Is there any point at which missile fire is possible? </p><p></p><p>There are HUGE GAPS, and in any case the application of all this logic to the initial situation of opponents approaching and a fighter trying to keep them pinned down is ALL extrapolation! A perfectly reasonable reading of the rules would have it that you can only engage people that you end up within 10' of. Remember, movement and attacks are simultaneous (or near-simultaneous) in AD&D combat. Both sides plot their moves ahead, reveal them, initiative is checked, and the results are worked out, with the higher initiative party striking blows first (mostly, sort of, depending on which optional rules you use). 'Common sense' indicates that 2 opponents won't 'pass through' one another if they moved in from opposite directions, but AD&D doesn't even contain a rule, not even a suggestion, as to exactly where such opponents would end up, how to resolve just how close they came to each other if they're moving to different places at different rates from various directions, just how much faster you'd have to be than someone else to 'run around them' (assuming space exists, and how much would you need). </p><p></p><p>Again, even the 15' wide bridge held by 3 PCs isn't a clear case in AD&D where you can prevent the enemy from going past, and its entirely unclear how many of them you can stop or 'OA' on their way by. ENTIRELY unclear, not just "it depends a little bit on how you rules lawyer this" its UTTERLY unclear and completely up to the DM, who can very reasonably make any of several different rulings. REALLY, go run AD&D at a Con and see what happens, this stuff comes up all the time and it can only be resolved by the ancient "DM is always right" of 'rule zero'.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6886080, member: 82106"] I recall the DMG having an optional "If its 10 levels below you, or under 1 hit die" rule, yes. Its not a bad rule, and gives fighters a bit of something extra (which they badly need!). Where things would get ambiguous was situations like say where 2 characters are engaged with a troll. Can the troll be said to 'engage' both of them, or is one simply free to move away? Do the 'parting shots' count as the other parties' normal attack routine, or can they make an entire EXTRA set of attacks on top of "from the back as if stunned" (which against a fighter with a shield is AT LEAST the equivalent of getting +5 to all your attacks, and probably more). Would parting shots be 'split' (IE if 2 guys retreat from a troll does it get C/C/B against BOTH OF THEM, or just 3 attacks split in some way, or does it even get to try to follow both). Its also not clear in what sense missile fire for instance would 'cover a retreat'. If one character flees or 'disengages' is the opponent not still locked in melee given that it is now in pursuit? Is there any point at which missile fire is possible? There are HUGE GAPS, and in any case the application of all this logic to the initial situation of opponents approaching and a fighter trying to keep them pinned down is ALL extrapolation! A perfectly reasonable reading of the rules would have it that you can only engage people that you end up within 10' of. Remember, movement and attacks are simultaneous (or near-simultaneous) in AD&D combat. Both sides plot their moves ahead, reveal them, initiative is checked, and the results are worked out, with the higher initiative party striking blows first (mostly, sort of, depending on which optional rules you use). 'Common sense' indicates that 2 opponents won't 'pass through' one another if they moved in from opposite directions, but AD&D doesn't even contain a rule, not even a suggestion, as to exactly where such opponents would end up, how to resolve just how close they came to each other if they're moving to different places at different rates from various directions, just how much faster you'd have to be than someone else to 'run around them' (assuming space exists, and how much would you need). Again, even the 15' wide bridge held by 3 PCs isn't a clear case in AD&D where you can prevent the enemy from going past, and its entirely unclear how many of them you can stop or 'OA' on their way by. ENTIRELY unclear, not just "it depends a little bit on how you rules lawyer this" its UTTERLY unclear and completely up to the DM, who can very reasonably make any of several different rulings. REALLY, go run AD&D at a Con and see what happens, this stuff comes up all the time and it can only be resolved by the ancient "DM is always right" of 'rule zero'. [/QUOTE]
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