Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6886084" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>[MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION], the Ring text I quoted applies to Rings of Vampiric Regeneration as well as the normal ones (hence "in no case" - ie whichever sort of ring you have). Sword of Life-Stealing says (DMG p 166) that hp gain is "subject to the limit of his or her maximum number of hit points predetermined by rolling hit dice, i.e. only a character who has somehow suffered loss of hit points can benefit from the function." Maybe your armour was your "soul battery"?</p><p></p><p>I don't dispute that there's GM interpretation. I think the most fuzzy paragraph of the ones I quoted is the one you picked up on (with "proceed to the area"):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">If characters or similar intelligent creatures are able to single out an opponent or opponents, then the concerned figures will remain locked in melee until one side is dead or opts to attempt to break off the combat. If there are unengaged opponents, they will move to melee the unengaged enemy. If the now-unengaged figures desire to assist others of their party, they will have to proceed to the area in which their fellows are engaged, using the movement rates already expressed. </p><p></p><p>I think it's clear enough that if you're <em>unengaged</em> you have to use your movement to re-engage. I assume that would involve either the charging rules (but not more than once per turn) or the close-to-striking-range rules. But it's not spelled out at all. What's most obscure to me is the bit about singling out opponents and staying "locked in melee". That's where the ratios (how many engaged figures per character?) are unclear. There's also the rules for using hexes or squares (pictures on DMG p 69) and they are interesting because depending on whether hexes or squares are used the number of surrounding figures is 6 or 8 - so to some extent positioning is dependent upon mapping conventions! - not the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Do you engage the people behind you? Can you turn to do so? The rules don't say.</p><p></p><p>On the 10' issue: that's what 3E and 4e go with (max distance across two adjacent squares is 10') but I agree it's not clear what happens in all cases, especially if (say) the character is short and wielding a dagger or chopsticks.</p><p></p><p>Leaving the gnomes with chopsticks to one side, my reading would be that if a melee is going on between you and someone you want to "single out" you can't just wander through - it's either go around, or fight your way through. What I think is diffferent from 5' step/shifting is that, when it comes to fighting your way through, you can probably declare a fighting withdrawal with a change of facing to move around an enemy in the intervening melee. And because the intervening enemy can't follow you (being engaged with someone else) you can break off without suffering a free attack. (The enemy you're trying to move past could presumably follow <em>you</em> with his/her own fighting withdrawal.)</p><p></p><p>So in practice it becomes closer to "shift = half speed" then "shift = 1 sq", but you can't attack while shifting.</p><p></p><p>But that's imposing a fair bit of interpretation on an obscure passage. And the fighting withdrawal stuff is complicated by being in the PHB only and not the DMG. (Just as the parry stuff is.) I have a copy of Chainmail but have never read it through, and certainly never played it. I'm not (and never have been) a minis player. I can't remember exactly how we handled blocking/frontage back in the AD&D days - given it was "TotM" is suspect we just used the sort of common sense you described, and back then it would never have occurred to me to have an orc declare an "acrobatics check" to try and move through the front line (that was something that only thief-acrobats could do!, using jumping, evasion etc).</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I'm not sure why I think fighting withdrawal is half speed - is that a Moldvay-ism?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6886084, member: 42582"] [MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION], the Ring text I quoted applies to Rings of Vampiric Regeneration as well as the normal ones (hence "in no case" - ie whichever sort of ring you have). Sword of Life-Stealing says (DMG p 166) that hp gain is "subject to the limit of his or her maximum number of hit points predetermined by rolling hit dice, i.e. only a character who has somehow suffered loss of hit points can benefit from the function." Maybe your armour was your "soul battery"? I don't dispute that there's GM interpretation. I think the most fuzzy paragraph of the ones I quoted is the one you picked up on (with "proceed to the area"): [indent]If characters or similar intelligent creatures are able to single out an opponent or opponents, then the concerned figures will remain locked in melee until one side is dead or opts to attempt to break off the combat. If there are unengaged opponents, they will move to melee the unengaged enemy. If the now-unengaged figures desire to assist others of their party, they will have to proceed to the area in which their fellows are engaged, using the movement rates already expressed. [/indent] I think it's clear enough that if you're [I]unengaged[/I] you have to use your movement to re-engage. I assume that would involve either the charging rules (but not more than once per turn) or the close-to-striking-range rules. But it's not spelled out at all. What's most obscure to me is the bit about singling out opponents and staying "locked in melee". That's where the ratios (how many engaged figures per character?) are unclear. There's also the rules for using hexes or squares (pictures on DMG p 69) and they are interesting because depending on whether hexes or squares are used the number of surrounding figures is 6 or 8 - so to some extent positioning is dependent upon mapping conventions! - not the fiction. Do you engage the people behind you? Can you turn to do so? The rules don't say. On the 10' issue: that's what 3E and 4e go with (max distance across two adjacent squares is 10') but I agree it's not clear what happens in all cases, especially if (say) the character is short and wielding a dagger or chopsticks. Leaving the gnomes with chopsticks to one side, my reading would be that if a melee is going on between you and someone you want to "single out" you can't just wander through - it's either go around, or fight your way through. What I think is diffferent from 5' step/shifting is that, when it comes to fighting your way through, you can probably declare a fighting withdrawal with a change of facing to move around an enemy in the intervening melee. And because the intervening enemy can't follow you (being engaged with someone else) you can break off without suffering a free attack. (The enemy you're trying to move past could presumably follow [I]you[/I] with his/her own fighting withdrawal.) So in practice it becomes closer to "shift = half speed" then "shift = 1 sq", but you can't attack while shifting. But that's imposing a fair bit of interpretation on an obscure passage. And the fighting withdrawal stuff is complicated by being in the PHB only and not the DMG. (Just as the parry stuff is.) I have a copy of Chainmail but have never read it through, and certainly never played it. I'm not (and never have been) a minis player. I can't remember exactly how we handled blocking/frontage back in the AD&D days - given it was "TotM" is suspect we just used the sort of common sense you described, and back then it would never have occurred to me to have an orc declare an "acrobatics check" to try and move through the front line (that was something that only thief-acrobats could do!, using jumping, evasion etc). EDIT: I'm not sure why I think fighting withdrawal is half speed - is that a Moldvay-ism? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th to 5th Edition Converters - What has been your experience?
Top