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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 6359406" data-attributes="member: 9789"><p>Thinking about it a bit more, really the heart of the potential abuse comes from the "store up" potential of how you're using your spell slots. Even giving up all your spell slots - while a HUGE cost - isn't necessarily a bad trade-off because what you're basically doing is spending a resource value equal to <em>all your spell slots at once</em> in order to get a single, huge effect. It takes days of prep time, but then in one day you can get your 82 skeletons to do one thing in one round: which is like spending 11 spells (from 3rd to 8th level) all at once!</p><p></p><p>This just leads me back to the idea that summoning more powerful but temporary minions is a better solution.</p><p></p><p>Another solution would to have put a better cap on your spending; giving up all your spell slots seems like a bad deal but again, it really just depends. Making Animate Dead only work up to a spell slot level of 5, or just <em>not making it work with additional spell slot levels</em> probably would have solved the whole thing. Create Undead can only make a max of 25 ghouls at level 20; that's still nowhere near the 100+ you can do with Animate Dead.</p><p></p><p>Of course, there are still a lot of counter points. A single fireball or a well-placed breath weapon could cut your army of 82 skeletons by at least 1/4th without much trouble - you are definitely assuming some risk when putting all your eggs in one basket. They still have "poor" AC and HP, and the logistics of using 82 creatures as a single tool can become quite unwieldy. Not to mention it's really all up to the GM; at some tables stuff like this really won't fly. But in the end the potential is there, and it might have been simpler if they had just cut the potential out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 6359406, member: 9789"] Thinking about it a bit more, really the heart of the potential abuse comes from the "store up" potential of how you're using your spell slots. Even giving up all your spell slots - while a HUGE cost - isn't necessarily a bad trade-off because what you're basically doing is spending a resource value equal to [I]all your spell slots at once[/I] in order to get a single, huge effect. It takes days of prep time, but then in one day you can get your 82 skeletons to do one thing in one round: which is like spending 11 spells (from 3rd to 8th level) all at once! This just leads me back to the idea that summoning more powerful but temporary minions is a better solution. Another solution would to have put a better cap on your spending; giving up all your spell slots seems like a bad deal but again, it really just depends. Making Animate Dead only work up to a spell slot level of 5, or just [I]not making it work with additional spell slot levels[/I] probably would have solved the whole thing. Create Undead can only make a max of 25 ghouls at level 20; that's still nowhere near the 100+ you can do with Animate Dead. Of course, there are still a lot of counter points. A single fireball or a well-placed breath weapon could cut your army of 82 skeletons by at least 1/4th without much trouble - you are definitely assuming some risk when putting all your eggs in one basket. They still have "poor" AC and HP, and the logistics of using 82 creatures as a single tool can become quite unwieldy. Not to mention it's really all up to the GM; at some tables stuff like this really won't fly. But in the end the potential is there, and it might have been simpler if they had just cut the potential out. [/QUOTE]
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