Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Hosted Forums
Creature Catalog Forums
General Monster Talk
5E: Alternate Takes on Official Fifth Edition Monsters
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8873271" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>Spent a moment wondering if you meant some third-party publication, since TSR didn't publish a book called <em>Men and Monsters</em> for OD&D. The first two booklets in the 1974 Original Box Set were called <em>Men & Magic</em> and <em>Monsters & Treasures</em>, which I suspect is the source of my confusion.</p><p></p><p>A bit of investigation revealed you probably meant <em>Eldritch Wizardry</em>, which contains the rule:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Demons (detailed in the next part of this supplement) gain saving throws according to their number of hit dice except those demons with 10-sided, 12-sided, or 20-sided dice for determining the number of hit points they have. Basically, each hit die that a demon possesses equals one level: however, with regard to demons with 10- or 12- sided hit dice the number of levels is 50% greater than the number of dice (round up), while demons with 20-sided hit dice are considered as having a level equal to twice their hit dice.</p><p></p><p>There was no cap on the number of HD a monster can have, but their to hit table stops advancing at a certain number of HD (i.e. 16+ HD in AD&D) so all they get is more hit points, so many titanically powerful monsters were just given an arbitrary number of hp plus an "attacks as 16+ HD monster" statement.</p><p></p><p>The first monster with non-standard Hit Dice that I'm aware of was the humble Kobold in <em>Monsters & Treasures</em> which instead of a single Hit Die like a Goblin, had half a HD, or rather a single HD whose results were interpreted in a peculiar manner:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><u><strong>KOBOLDS:</strong></u> Treat these monsters as if they were Goblins except that they will take from 1 - 3 hits (roll a six-sided die with a 1 or 3 equalling 1 hit, a 3 or 4 equalling 2 hits, etc.).</p><p></p><p>Original book monsters used D6s for Hit Dice. Indeed the rules only employed D20s and D6s. The first supplement, <em>Greyhawk</em> (1975), "highly recommended" switching to different sizes of Hit Dice for classes and gave all monsters the 8-sided die system, with the addition "Thus, a Kobold would get 1-4 points" but had no explanation as to how those 1 to 4 hit points were derived.</p><p></p><p>The easiest interpretation was that was meant to be a D4 like Kobolds use in AD&D, but now I'm imagining a non-standard dice rolling method like in <em>Monsters & Treasures</em>.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps "roll a ten-sided die with a 1-4 equalling 1 hit, a 5-7 equals 2 hits, an 8-9 is 3 hits, and a 10 is 4 hits" (average 2.3), or "roll an eight-sided die with a 1-2 equalling 1 hit, a 3-5 equals 2 hits, a 6-7 is 3 hits, and an 8 is 4 hits" (average 2.25)?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8873271, member: 57383"] Spent a moment wondering if you meant some third-party publication, since TSR didn't publish a book called [I]Men and Monsters[/I] for OD&D. The first two booklets in the 1974 Original Box Set were called [I]Men & Magic[/I] and [I]Monsters & Treasures[/I], which I suspect is the source of my confusion. A bit of investigation revealed you probably meant [I]Eldritch Wizardry[/I], which contains the rule: [INDENT]Demons (detailed in the next part of this supplement) gain saving throws according to their number of hit dice except those demons with 10-sided, 12-sided, or 20-sided dice for determining the number of hit points they have. Basically, each hit die that a demon possesses equals one level: however, with regard to demons with 10- or 12- sided hit dice the number of levels is 50% greater than the number of dice (round up), while demons with 20-sided hit dice are considered as having a level equal to twice their hit dice.[/INDENT] There was no cap on the number of HD a monster can have, but their to hit table stops advancing at a certain number of HD (i.e. 16+ HD in AD&D) so all they get is more hit points, so many titanically powerful monsters were just given an arbitrary number of hp plus an "attacks as 16+ HD monster" statement. The first monster with non-standard Hit Dice that I'm aware of was the humble Kobold in [I]Monsters & Treasures[/I] which instead of a single Hit Die like a Goblin, had half a HD, or rather a single HD whose results were interpreted in a peculiar manner: [indent][U][B]KOBOLDS:[/B][/U] Treat these monsters as if they were Goblins except that they will take from 1 - 3 hits (roll a six-sided die with a 1 or 3 equalling 1 hit, a 3 or 4 equalling 2 hits, etc.).[/indent] Original book monsters used D6s for Hit Dice. Indeed the rules only employed D20s and D6s. The first supplement, [I]Greyhawk[/I] (1975), "highly recommended" switching to different sizes of Hit Dice for classes and gave all monsters the 8-sided die system, with the addition "Thus, a Kobold would get 1-4 points" but had no explanation as to how those 1 to 4 hit points were derived. The easiest interpretation was that was meant to be a D4 like Kobolds use in AD&D, but now I'm imagining a non-standard dice rolling method like in [I]Monsters & Treasures[/I]. Perhaps "roll a ten-sided die with a 1-4 equalling 1 hit, a 5-7 equals 2 hits, an 8-9 is 3 hits, and a 10 is 4 hits" (average 2.3), or "roll an eight-sided die with a 1-2 equalling 1 hit, a 3-5 equals 2 hits, a 6-7 is 3 hits, and an 8 is 4 hits" (average 2.25)? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Hosted Forums
Creature Catalog Forums
General Monster Talk
5E: Alternate Takes on Official Fifth Edition Monsters
Top