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<blockquote data-quote="Pssthpok" data-source="post: 6702456" data-attributes="member: 34725"><p>If you want, you can simulate Adam Warlock's trick with wish. Pretty much the point of that spell is to model anything that lesser magic can't handle.</p><p></p><p>Beyond that, D&D isn't GURPS and it isn't M&M, so it's worth keeping in mind that twisting a dungeon-delver game into a super-hero game is bound to complicate things. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think if there's an expectation of an uncertain outcome in a fight against PCs, the CR has to be 30 or lower. Otherwise, you don't even need a CR. </p><p></p><p>If the argument in favor of stats on CR 31+ monsters starts with <em>"well, if they're covered in artifacts..."</em> then that's on the DM. A party of modestly-dressed level 20 PCs has next to no hope against a CR 30. That's the point, and every magic item in the party is a willful concession from the DM aimed at giving the PCs more range in terms of what they can kill before it kills them. If you think the PC's need more killing range, lower your monster CRs, don't reinvent the wheel is all I'm saying. </p><p></p><p>Orcus is a lesser deity, CR 26. Raising his CR raises the bar on everything else at the same level power, and that's a lot of unnecessary revision especially if the point of raising Orcus to that level is to make him unbeatable. If that's the point, just say he's unbeatable! If that's not the point, you're already done!</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I know this is just not my corner of the kitchen so I'll go back to lurking. I just wanted to drop a few coppers on the table.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pssthpok, post: 6702456, member: 34725"] If you want, you can simulate Adam Warlock's trick with wish. Pretty much the point of that spell is to model anything that lesser magic can't handle. Beyond that, D&D isn't GURPS and it isn't M&M, so it's worth keeping in mind that twisting a dungeon-delver game into a super-hero game is bound to complicate things. I think if there's an expectation of an uncertain outcome in a fight against PCs, the CR has to be 30 or lower. Otherwise, you don't even need a CR. If the argument in favor of stats on CR 31+ monsters starts with [I]"well, if they're covered in artifacts..."[/I] then that's on the DM. A party of modestly-dressed level 20 PCs has next to no hope against a CR 30. That's the point, and every magic item in the party is a willful concession from the DM aimed at giving the PCs more range in terms of what they can kill before it kills them. If you think the PC's need more killing range, lower your monster CRs, don't reinvent the wheel is all I'm saying. Orcus is a lesser deity, CR 26. Raising his CR raises the bar on everything else at the same level power, and that's a lot of unnecessary revision especially if the point of raising Orcus to that level is to make him unbeatable. If that's the point, just say he's unbeatable! If that's not the point, you're already done! Anyway, I know this is just not my corner of the kitchen so I'll go back to lurking. I just wanted to drop a few coppers on the table. [/QUOTE]
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