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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
[5E] Looking for Build Feedback Vengeance Paladin + Hexblade Warlock.
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<blockquote data-quote="Obliza" data-source="post: 7494790" data-attributes="member: 6915561"><p>Thanks for the feedback, I ended up going Paladin 2, Warlock 3 to start. Not for optimization but it makes sense for the backstory/early game I worked out with my DM. Delaying extra attack and aura certainly hurts but booming blade is a decent recovery.</p><p></p><p>I know that the current rhetoric is that GWM is not as strong as most people think but I think what I have worked out is superior. </p><p></p><p>Our group also has a wolf totem barbarian which is wonderful for advantage.</p><p></p><p>Elven Accuracy + GWM + Baleful Curse.</p><p></p><p>Elven Accuracy is a average increase of +5 to attack rolls (4.99 to be specific) vs the +3.32 of advantage.</p><p>Crit chance is 14.26 vs 9.75 of advantage or the 5% normal.</p><p>Baleful curse gives a critical strike on a 19 that increase crit chance to 27.1% vs the 19% of advantage or the normal 10%</p><p></p><p>Great Weapon Master offers not only the +10 for -5 accuracy, it also offers bonus action strikes on critical hits and monster kills.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So lets look at some 11, 15 and 20 math. (Warlock 3, Paladin x)</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Level</td><td>AC</td><td>Hit</td><td>GWM</td><td>Attack</td><td>Modifier</td><td>Weapon Bonus</td><td>GWM</td><td>Improved</td><td>SUM</td><td>GWMSUM</td><td>ExtraAtk</td><td>GWMExtra</td><td>Hit</td><td>GWMHit</td><td>TrueAVG</td><td>GWMTrue</td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>17</td><td>9</td><td>-5</td><td>7</td><td>4</td><td>1</td><td>10</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>22</td><td>24</td><td>44</td><td>0.9571</td><td>0.784</td><td>22.9704</td><td>34.496</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>18</td><td>11</td><td>-5</td><td>7</td><td>5</td><td>2</td><td>10</td><td>4.5</td><td>18.5</td><td>28.5</td><td>37</td><td>57</td><td>0.973</td><td>0.836</td><td>36.001</td><td>47.652</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>20</td><td>13</td><td>-5</td><td>7</td><td>5</td><td>3</td><td>10</td><td>4.5</td><td>19.5</td><td>29.5</td><td>39</td><td>59</td><td>0.973</td><td>0.8336</td><td>37.947</td><td>49.1824</td></tr></table><p></p><p>This is all calculated with elven advantage with the dice rolls averaged against an AC17/18/20 for the average CR of enemies at that level. Increases in effectiveness vs lower AC obviously.</p><p>Considering the critical hit chance and bonus attacks that I haven't worked it out, this seems competitive with polearm mastery. (Hard to correctly weight the reaction reach attacks)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Posts like this have become so common to be incredibly tiring.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">My friends love optimization, we all try to get the most out of our characters and combinations its part of the fun for us.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Yes, yes too much hexblade we know. If you want contract ideas perhaps the powers are not given but taught.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">As for what happens at 20 in one campaign we once played at lvl 20 for 8 weeks, but I'm sure your perception of the relevance for level 20 builds is correct for everyone.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong>Lets sum up shall we</strong></span></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You should build for low levels / all levels</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Builds should not focus around max level</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Multiclass is overrated</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">How do you plan to roleplay that multiclass</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter are overrated</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Herp derp Hexblade</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Roleplaying over optimization (Can't possibly have both can we?)<br /> <br /> Noted. Please stop posting this.</span></li> </ul><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p>Thanks for the feedback, yeah I love spirit guardians and the combination with champion challenge but I've already played a pure paladin of that build.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Obliza, post: 7494790, member: 6915561"] Thanks for the feedback, I ended up going Paladin 2, Warlock 3 to start. Not for optimization but it makes sense for the backstory/early game I worked out with my DM. Delaying extra attack and aura certainly hurts but booming blade is a decent recovery. I know that the current rhetoric is that GWM is not as strong as most people think but I think what I have worked out is superior. Our group also has a wolf totem barbarian which is wonderful for advantage. Elven Accuracy + GWM + Baleful Curse. Elven Accuracy is a average increase of +5 to attack rolls (4.99 to be specific) vs the +3.32 of advantage. Crit chance is 14.26 vs 9.75 of advantage or the 5% normal. Baleful curse gives a critical strike on a 19 that increase crit chance to 27.1% vs the 19% of advantage or the normal 10% Great Weapon Master offers not only the +10 for -5 accuracy, it also offers bonus action strikes on critical hits and monster kills. So lets look at some 11, 15 and 20 math. (Warlock 3, Paladin x) [TABLE="width: 1143"] [TR] [TD]Level[/TD] [TD]AC[/TD] [TD]Hit[/TD] [TD]GWM[/TD] [TD]Attack[/TD] [TD]Modifier[/TD] [TD]Weapon Bonus[/TD] [TD]GWM[/TD] [TD]Improved[/TD] [TD]SUM[/TD] [TD]GWMSUM[/TD] [TD]ExtraAtk[/TD] [TD]GWMExtra[/TD] [TD]Hit[/TD] [TD]GWMHit[/TD] [TD]TrueAVG[/TD] [TD]GWMTrue[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: right"]11[/TD] [TD="align: right"]17[/TD] [TD="align: right"]9[/TD] [TD="align: right"]-5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]7[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4[/TD] [TD="align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="align: right"]10[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD="align: right"]12[/TD] [TD="align: right"]22[/TD] [TD="align: right"]24[/TD] [TD="align: right"]44[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0.9571[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0.784[/TD] [TD="align: right"]22.9704[/TD] [TD="align: right"]34.496[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: right"]15[/TD] [TD="align: right"]18[/TD] [TD="align: right"]11[/TD] [TD="align: right"]-5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]7[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]2[/TD] [TD="align: right"]10[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4.5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]18.5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]28.5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]37[/TD] [TD="align: right"]57[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0.973[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0.836[/TD] [TD="align: right"]36.001[/TD] [TD="align: right"]47.652[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: right"]20[/TD] [TD="align: right"]20[/TD] [TD="align: right"]13[/TD] [TD="align: right"]-5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]7[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]3[/TD] [TD="align: right"]10[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4.5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]19.5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]29.5[/TD] [TD="align: right"]39[/TD] [TD="align: right"]59[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0.973[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0.8336[/TD] [TD="align: right"]37.947[/TD] [TD="align: right"]49.1824[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] This is all calculated with elven advantage with the dice rolls averaged against an AC17/18/20 for the average CR of enemies at that level. Increases in effectiveness vs lower AC obviously. Considering the critical hit chance and bonus attacks that I haven't worked it out, this seems competitive with polearm mastery. (Hard to correctly weight the reaction reach attacks) [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana] Posts like this have become so common to be incredibly tiring. My friends love optimization, we all try to get the most out of our characters and combinations its part of the fun for us. Yes, yes too much hexblade we know. If you want contract ideas perhaps the powers are not given but taught. As for what happens at 20 in one campaign we once played at lvl 20 for 8 weeks, but I'm sure your perception of the relevance for level 20 builds is correct for everyone. [B]Lets sum up shall we[/B] [LIST] [*]You should build for low levels / all levels [*]Builds should not focus around max level [*]Multiclass is overrated [*]How do you plan to roleplay that multiclass [*]Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter are overrated [*]Herp derp Hexblade [*]Roleplaying over optimization (Can't possibly have both can we?) Noted. Please stop posting this. [/LIST] [/FONT] Thanks for the feedback, yeah I love spirit guardians and the combination with champion challenge but I've already played a pure paladin of that build. [/QUOTE]
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[5E] Looking for Build Feedback Vengeance Paladin + Hexblade Warlock.
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