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<blockquote data-quote="Khisanth the Ancient" data-source="post: 6655600" data-attributes="member: 11368"><p>Oh, definitely, I think.</p><p></p><p>Half of the problem IMO with 3E epic (the other half being the math issues) was that it didn't have a clear 'place'/'role'- later 3E products started setting up the same kinds of stories with non-epic rules -- thus the Elder Evils and the archfiends are all within reach of 20th level characters. Zargon (from the Elder evils book) is CR 16 despite supposedly having killed gods.</p><p></p><p>And that really makes perfect sense when spells like Wish, Demiplane (in 5E)/Genesis (in 3E), etc. are available at that level range.</p><p></p><p>And in 1E the PCs could kill Lolth in the Q1 module which was for 10th-14th levels (according to wikipedia; can't find my copy right now...)</p><p> </p><p>It also helps the believability of the world if adventures at higher levels shift toward the planes, that way lower level stuff isn't totally overshadowed by the high level stuff... since there's less high level stuff per planet.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't know, just going by what I've read online. CR30 I think.</p><p></p><p>5E Wyrmlings=CR 1-4, Young Dragons =CR 6-10, Adult =CR13-17, Ancient =CR20-24 (IIRC).</p><p></p><p>There's not all that much room for Epic Dragons there if Tiamat is CR30 and an Ancient Polychromatic Dragon.</p><p></p><p>But one could do something like Wyrmling ~ CR12, Young ~CR18, Adult ~CR25, Ancient ~CR30.</p><p></p><p>Which sounds too low, but then the Wyrmling Force Dragon in the ELH is CR 13.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khisanth the Ancient, post: 6655600, member: 11368"] Oh, definitely, I think. Half of the problem IMO with 3E epic (the other half being the math issues) was that it didn't have a clear 'place'/'role'- later 3E products started setting up the same kinds of stories with non-epic rules -- thus the Elder Evils and the archfiends are all within reach of 20th level characters. Zargon (from the Elder evils book) is CR 16 despite supposedly having killed gods. And that really makes perfect sense when spells like Wish, Demiplane (in 5E)/Genesis (in 3E), etc. are available at that level range. And in 1E the PCs could kill Lolth in the Q1 module which was for 10th-14th levels (according to wikipedia; can't find my copy right now...) It also helps the believability of the world if adventures at higher levels shift toward the planes, that way lower level stuff isn't totally overshadowed by the high level stuff... since there's less high level stuff per planet. Don't know, just going by what I've read online. CR30 I think. 5E Wyrmlings=CR 1-4, Young Dragons =CR 6-10, Adult =CR13-17, Ancient =CR20-24 (IIRC). There's not all that much room for Epic Dragons there if Tiamat is CR30 and an Ancient Polychromatic Dragon. But one could do something like Wyrmling ~ CR12, Young ~CR18, Adult ~CR25, Ancient ~CR30. Which sounds too low, but then the Wyrmling Force Dragon in the ELH is CR 13. [/QUOTE]
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