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<blockquote data-quote="Khisanth the Ancient" data-source="post: 7170728" data-attributes="member: 11368"><p>They're mostly described as a weird palace or city, with the exception of Juiblex and Yeenoghu who don't really seem to have actual structures. </p><p></p><p>It isn't terribly clear in some cases - I'm not 100% sure whether Orcus's lair is meant to be just the palace or the whole city of Naratyr (probably the palace, but Fraz-Urb'luu's is explicitly a whole city, so who knows), and Juiblex's entry seems to say that his lair is the entire Abyssal layer of the Slime Pits/Shedaklah, but that can't be right, especially as Zuggtmoy's lair is on the same layer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That makes sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with the principle, definitely. In my own 5E world there's <em>one</em> Lich on the whole planet and the leader of the most powerful Arcane organization is a 14th-level wizard.</p><p></p><p>But I was talking about reconciling general demographics rules with published settings. At least by the 3E ELH stats, Toril has several people in the 30th+ range (even higher if you count ECL, as Elminster, the Simbul etc. have the Chosen of Mystra template). Athas can't have more than a couple million humanoids but it's full of characters well above 20th level (Sorcerer Kings, the Order, etc.) The Sorcerer kings were 40th+ level (20 wizard, 20 psionicist, 1-10 dragon) originally but that doesn't convert to 40th+ level equivalent power in 3E terms, so who knows...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khisanth the Ancient, post: 7170728, member: 11368"] They're mostly described as a weird palace or city, with the exception of Juiblex and Yeenoghu who don't really seem to have actual structures. It isn't terribly clear in some cases - I'm not 100% sure whether Orcus's lair is meant to be just the palace or the whole city of Naratyr (probably the palace, but Fraz-Urb'luu's is explicitly a whole city, so who knows), and Juiblex's entry seems to say that his lair is the entire Abyssal layer of the Slime Pits/Shedaklah, but that can't be right, especially as Zuggtmoy's lair is on the same layer. That makes sense. I agree with the principle, definitely. In my own 5E world there's [I]one[/I] Lich on the whole planet and the leader of the most powerful Arcane organization is a 14th-level wizard. But I was talking about reconciling general demographics rules with published settings. At least by the 3E ELH stats, Toril has several people in the 30th+ range (even higher if you count ECL, as Elminster, the Simbul etc. have the Chosen of Mystra template). Athas can't have more than a couple million humanoids but it's full of characters well above 20th level (Sorcerer Kings, the Order, etc.) The Sorcerer kings were 40th+ level (20 wizard, 20 psionicist, 1-10 dragon) originally but that doesn't convert to 40th+ level equivalent power in 3E terms, so who knows... [/QUOTE]
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