Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
5e Play, 1e Play, and the Immersive Experience
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7537314" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I think a lot of this depends on how much you embraced or were invested in a specific edition or version of the game. </p><p></p><p>I've been around for pretty much every edition of the game, but was too young to really grasp the difference between 1E AD&D and the BECMI stuff. We knew there were differences, but we didn't really care that much. And the transition from 1E to 2E just kind of happened for my group (we were using books from both editions in our game). </p><p></p><p>So I think at that point, we just thought of ourselves as "playing D&D" and not "playing this specific version of D&D". None of us got mad when 2e came out....the idea to even get mad about such a thing was lost on us. </p><p></p><p>Third Edition came along and that was the first edition that actually felt different enough to warrant our notice and to think of it as a different thing. We were also entering adulthood at this point, which is probably a big factor. It wasn't as backwards compatible as 2e was with 1e. It made some significant changes. It also was easier to understand. I have a couple of players who never really got into D&D until 3e came along and made more sense to them. Just simple things like streamlining the saving throws to ascending AC and actual skills and so on. As a result, my group really embraced this edition. It became "our edition" of D&D. </p><p></p><p>Then, sure enough, when 4e came along, my group really resisted it. It was "so different" than what we thought of as D&D that they just couldn't stick with it. We shifted over to Pathfinder, which was much more in line with what our group had come to expect. And I think this is largely because of how strongly we were invested in 3e more so than it had anything to do with 4e as an actual system. </p><p></p><p>Eventually, Pathfinder grew too cumbersome for our tastes, especially me as the primary DM. Luckily, 5e came along.</p><p></p><p>5e was recognizable as what we thought of as D&D. But unlike 3e, it was still manageable...the math and options and game elements were all kept relatively in check. So we happily took to 5E.</p><p></p><p>An old friend recently asked if we'd want to play some old school D&D. He shared a copy of the 1e PHB with me. Now, I have not kept my old books over the years....I generally get rid of most old books once I'm no longer using them....so I haven't actually seen the 1e PHB in probably 25 years. </p><p></p><p>I was amazed we were ever able to make sense of it. </p><p></p><p>It is poorly laid out, it's poorly organized, the language is needlessly dense and byzantine. Whole parts seem glued on (which they likely were). I suppose because we were kids and had all the time in the world to devote to the game, we were able to make it work. It also became very obvious to me that we did not play with all the rules as presented...we just ignored some stuff. Which is still the case, I suppose ('m looking at you, encumberance! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite4" alt=":mad:" title="Mad :mad:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":mad:" />) But I told my friend that if he wanted to play, we should use the 5e rules...they're simply easier, and all the members of our group are comfortable and happy with them. </p><p></p><p>But....I can imagine that if I was a bit older....if 1e was my 3e, so to speak....then I might be incredibly invested in those rules and the books. Because we often times identify these things as part of "us". Especially if I had been playing the same edition of the game from the early 80s through today....that's a pretty powerful impetus to stick with it. </p><p></p><p> [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] mentioned not finding any of the later edition books that captured his imagination the way the early books did. But why would they? Nothing will ever recapture the wonder of new discovery....and that's what was happening with those early books. There had been nothing quite like them before. I think that for anyone who was around for early edition material, expecting to be just as amazed when opening modern books is setting themselves up for disappointment. I think there's a lot more at play here than the content of the books or how they're laid out and so on.</p><p></p><p>Today's books, by contrast, while they may be the introduction of the hobby to many, benefit from having learned the mistakes of the past. That's why they're clear and presented in a sensible way and so on. </p><p></p><p>Does that mean they lose something? It's possible, I guess. I suppose that presenting different rules as they are needed and having examples does provide immersion when reading the books. But I imagine an 8 year old kid opening the PHB today largely feeling the same way I did as a kid. Is he as immersed as I was when reading the book in the 80s? There's no way to say. Am I as immersed when reading the 5e PHB in 2018 as 8 year old me was reading the 1e PHB in 1984? No, of course not....but I don't think it has all that much to do with the books themselves. </p><p></p><p>One of my buddies brought his 14 year old nephew to play with us one night....and he was amazed by D&D. Not by 5e or anything like that....just by D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7537314, member: 6785785"] I think a lot of this depends on how much you embraced or were invested in a specific edition or version of the game. I've been around for pretty much every edition of the game, but was too young to really grasp the difference between 1E AD&D and the BECMI stuff. We knew there were differences, but we didn't really care that much. And the transition from 1E to 2E just kind of happened for my group (we were using books from both editions in our game). So I think at that point, we just thought of ourselves as "playing D&D" and not "playing this specific version of D&D". None of us got mad when 2e came out....the idea to even get mad about such a thing was lost on us. Third Edition came along and that was the first edition that actually felt different enough to warrant our notice and to think of it as a different thing. We were also entering adulthood at this point, which is probably a big factor. It wasn't as backwards compatible as 2e was with 1e. It made some significant changes. It also was easier to understand. I have a couple of players who never really got into D&D until 3e came along and made more sense to them. Just simple things like streamlining the saving throws to ascending AC and actual skills and so on. As a result, my group really embraced this edition. It became "our edition" of D&D. Then, sure enough, when 4e came along, my group really resisted it. It was "so different" than what we thought of as D&D that they just couldn't stick with it. We shifted over to Pathfinder, which was much more in line with what our group had come to expect. And I think this is largely because of how strongly we were invested in 3e more so than it had anything to do with 4e as an actual system. Eventually, Pathfinder grew too cumbersome for our tastes, especially me as the primary DM. Luckily, 5e came along. 5e was recognizable as what we thought of as D&D. But unlike 3e, it was still manageable...the math and options and game elements were all kept relatively in check. So we happily took to 5E. An old friend recently asked if we'd want to play some old school D&D. He shared a copy of the 1e PHB with me. Now, I have not kept my old books over the years....I generally get rid of most old books once I'm no longer using them....so I haven't actually seen the 1e PHB in probably 25 years. I was amazed we were ever able to make sense of it. It is poorly laid out, it's poorly organized, the language is needlessly dense and byzantine. Whole parts seem glued on (which they likely were). I suppose because we were kids and had all the time in the world to devote to the game, we were able to make it work. It also became very obvious to me that we did not play with all the rules as presented...we just ignored some stuff. Which is still the case, I suppose ('m looking at you, encumberance! :mad:) But I told my friend that if he wanted to play, we should use the 5e rules...they're simply easier, and all the members of our group are comfortable and happy with them. But....I can imagine that if I was a bit older....if 1e was my 3e, so to speak....then I might be incredibly invested in those rules and the books. Because we often times identify these things as part of "us". Especially if I had been playing the same edition of the game from the early 80s through today....that's a pretty powerful impetus to stick with it. [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] mentioned not finding any of the later edition books that captured his imagination the way the early books did. But why would they? Nothing will ever recapture the wonder of new discovery....and that's what was happening with those early books. There had been nothing quite like them before. I think that for anyone who was around for early edition material, expecting to be just as amazed when opening modern books is setting themselves up for disappointment. I think there's a lot more at play here than the content of the books or how they're laid out and so on. Today's books, by contrast, while they may be the introduction of the hobby to many, benefit from having learned the mistakes of the past. That's why they're clear and presented in a sensible way and so on. Does that mean they lose something? It's possible, I guess. I suppose that presenting different rules as they are needed and having examples does provide immersion when reading the books. But I imagine an 8 year old kid opening the PHB today largely feeling the same way I did as a kid. Is he as immersed as I was when reading the book in the 80s? There's no way to say. Am I as immersed when reading the 5e PHB in 2018 as 8 year old me was reading the 1e PHB in 1984? No, of course not....but I don't think it has all that much to do with the books themselves. One of my buddies brought his 14 year old nephew to play with us one night....and he was amazed by D&D. Not by 5e or anything like that....just by D&D. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
5e Play, 1e Play, and the Immersive Experience
Top