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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
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5E skills and the Perception vs Stealth imbalance
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6987337" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>Perhaps... I'm playing 5e by the rules (at least in this case <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> )... what are you playing? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When do you roll? Now I'm going to assume your monsters aren't trying to be stealthy or ambush in the middle of a sunny field or sneaking about in brightly lit caverns... if this is correct let's take a look at our sources of light and vision...</p><p></p><p>Darkvision: 60'... in dim light see as if bright light, in darkness as if dim light... so max 60ft</p><p>Lamp: A lamp Casts bright light in a 15-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet... so max 45ft max as if dim light</p><p>Lantern, Bullseye: Casts bright light in a 60-foot cone and dim light for an additional 60 feet... so max 120ft as dim light, but only in a cone.</p><p>Lantern, Hooded: A hooded lantern casts bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet... so max 60ft as dim light </p><p>Torch: Provides bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet... so max 40ft</p><p>Light cantrip: t sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet... so max 40ft</p><p> </p><p>So with the major light sources above and the caveat that you are talking about hiding and ambushing in dark places ... tell me, at what distance are you having them roll to notice an ambush or to see stealthy creatures? And if it's greater than say 60ft or so... how are they pulling that off?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What rounds? How are they detecting these ambushes so far away that movement and/or ranged weapons are ineffective in the surprise round? Do they have magic items? Class abilities. Because from the general sources of light and illumination distances this shouldn't be happening... and even at the farthest distances (which are still well within the scope of most ranged attacks) they should have disadvantage because most only afford dim light... which is a -5 on passive perception. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure I agree... and if they choose to do that in the first round as their action... you still have a surprise round on anyone who doesn't make the check and if it's a single scout you have numerous attacks on them because they spent their turn raising the alarm as opposed to fighting or running away... and this assumes they beat all of the creatures initiatives otherwise you get to attack before they can do anything... and may stop them from raising any type of alarm.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again I am talking about 5e... I'm not sure what you are talking about until I get more details on how your players are detecting ambushes and hidden creatures (assuming favorable, i.e. dark or dim lighting, obscurement, etc. conditions)... could you elaborate? Then maybe we can reconcile these differences.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6987337, member: 48965"] Perhaps... I'm playing 5e by the rules (at least in this case :p )... what are you playing? When do you roll? Now I'm going to assume your monsters aren't trying to be stealthy or ambush in the middle of a sunny field or sneaking about in brightly lit caverns... if this is correct let's take a look at our sources of light and vision... Darkvision: 60'... in dim light see as if bright light, in darkness as if dim light... so max 60ft Lamp: A lamp Casts bright light in a 15-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet... so max 45ft max as if dim light Lantern, Bullseye: Casts bright light in a 60-foot cone and dim light for an additional 60 feet... so max 120ft as dim light, but only in a cone. Lantern, Hooded: A hooded lantern casts bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet... so max 60ft as dim light Torch: Provides bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet... so max 40ft Light cantrip: t sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet... so max 40ft So with the major light sources above and the caveat that you are talking about hiding and ambushing in dark places ... tell me, at what distance are you having them roll to notice an ambush or to see stealthy creatures? And if it's greater than say 60ft or so... how are they pulling that off? What rounds? How are they detecting these ambushes so far away that movement and/or ranged weapons are ineffective in the surprise round? Do they have magic items? Class abilities. Because from the general sources of light and illumination distances this shouldn't be happening... and even at the farthest distances (which are still well within the scope of most ranged attacks) they should have disadvantage because most only afford dim light... which is a -5 on passive perception. Sure I agree... and if they choose to do that in the first round as their action... you still have a surprise round on anyone who doesn't make the check and if it's a single scout you have numerous attacks on them because they spent their turn raising the alarm as opposed to fighting or running away... and this assumes they beat all of the creatures initiatives otherwise you get to attack before they can do anything... and may stop them from raising any type of alarm. Again I am talking about 5e... I'm not sure what you are talking about until I get more details on how your players are detecting ambushes and hidden creatures (assuming favorable, i.e. dark or dim lighting, obscurement, etc. conditions)... could you elaborate? Then maybe we can reconcile these differences. [/QUOTE]
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