Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
5e: the demystification of monsters?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jack7" data-source="post: 6025627" data-attributes="member: 54707"><p>To me, based upon the playtesting of the monster design of 5E, and the playtesting we've done, monsters are both demystified (that is they now appear far more realistic, gritty, and mortal - more like flesh and blood creatures instead of mere fantasy or sci-fantasy imaginary constructs- so I like that kind of demystification) and because they are so simple in design, far more easy to modify and to make mythological in nature. </p><p> </p><p>(Something I also very much appreciate and harkens back to AD&D/OD&D monsters).</p><p> </p><p>As to your comment about them being dark, dangerous, scary, and a real lethal threat (and I'm all for all of these things) I think a lot of that depends upon how the DM presents monsters in their particular adventure, setting, world, and game.</p><p> </p><p>Now to be perfectly fair I get your point, it is a valid and a good one, and I think game designers should strive to design monsters to be, indeed, fully capable of being absolutely <span style="color: darkred"><strong><em>Monstrous</em></strong></span>. </p><p> </p><p>However, I think it was a conscious choice on the part of the game designers not to overdesign and overdefine any one monster, or monster type. That is to say they are obviously leaving room for the individual DM to mythologize and mystify and "monsterize" each monster to the taste of the DM and the setting. I think they are intentionally taking the tack, which I agree with, that they provide the monster idea-templates and basic characteristics, and the DM provides the <em><strong>Real Monsters</strong></em> to the players.</p><p> </p><p>I think we are (gratefully) moving away from the game design era where the front-end designer does all the designing and thinking and creating for everyone else and back to (or modified, forward to) the era of the DM and players carrying their end of that load.</p><p> </p><p>(We are moving away from the pre-programmed OS game design era that the game designer wanted to create, and into the Free Form End User Era, where the end user does the yeoman's work to design the game they want to create. In the OS game the designer provides both the data and an Operating System that is very hard to modify or alter - it is rigid and static, in the Free Form system the designer designs a lite OS and provides some of the data and the end-user modifies as they wish, and adds to it as they desire. It's much, much more like earlier versions of the game, only less complicated and with more streamlining. We are moving away from the Geek-era of "you design it and I'll learn how to use and master it," and back to the Nerd-era of, "you lay out the general idea and I'll run with it and see what I can do." Away from a technological, mechanical game design approach and back more towards an artitistic, individualized, mythological approach to design.) </p><p> </p><p>Not all ogres have to be the same ogre anymore. They never really had to be, but that was the way the game designs stressed it operating - so that compatibility was king, not Individuality. Now though, or once again (taek your pick) some ogres can be tall, hairy, brutish human thugs, and some can be terrible, vicious, semi-supernatural Grendels. </p><p> </p><p>And personally I like that design/construct a lot. Especially as regards Role Play Game Designs. They are, after all, Role Play Games. Not Programming Games. Or Game Apps. But it means the DM and players can't expect the designers to do all of the deisgn work anymore. Now it falls back to the DMs and players.</p><p> </p><p>Now the DM and players become true co-Creators and sub-Creators again, not just referees and character actors.</p><p> </p><p>It's now our job again to take a monster and make them truly Monstrous, depending upon the needs of the setting, players, and game.</p><p> </p><p>So I think the real solution is not to look to the Game Designers, they're doing their part with the general design, but to look to ourselves to do our part with the individualized specifics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack7, post: 6025627, member: 54707"] To me, based upon the playtesting of the monster design of 5E, and the playtesting we've done, monsters are both demystified (that is they now appear far more realistic, gritty, and mortal - more like flesh and blood creatures instead of mere fantasy or sci-fantasy imaginary constructs- so I like that kind of demystification) and because they are so simple in design, far more easy to modify and to make mythological in nature. (Something I also very much appreciate and harkens back to AD&D/OD&D monsters). As to your comment about them being dark, dangerous, scary, and a real lethal threat (and I'm all for all of these things) I think a lot of that depends upon how the DM presents monsters in their particular adventure, setting, world, and game. Now to be perfectly fair I get your point, it is a valid and a good one, and I think game designers should strive to design monsters to be, indeed, fully capable of being absolutely [COLOR=darkred][B][I]Monstrous[/I][/B][/COLOR]. However, I think it was a conscious choice on the part of the game designers not to overdesign and overdefine any one monster, or monster type. That is to say they are obviously leaving room for the individual DM to mythologize and mystify and "monsterize" each monster to the taste of the DM and the setting. I think they are intentionally taking the tack, which I agree with, that they provide the monster idea-templates and basic characteristics, and the DM provides the [I][B]Real Monsters[/B][/I] to the players. I think we are (gratefully) moving away from the game design era where the front-end designer does all the designing and thinking and creating for everyone else and back to (or modified, forward to) the era of the DM and players carrying their end of that load. (We are moving away from the pre-programmed OS game design era that the game designer wanted to create, and into the Free Form End User Era, where the end user does the yeoman's work to design the game they want to create. In the OS game the designer provides both the data and an Operating System that is very hard to modify or alter - it is rigid and static, in the Free Form system the designer designs a lite OS and provides some of the data and the end-user modifies as they wish, and adds to it as they desire. It's much, much more like earlier versions of the game, only less complicated and with more streamlining. We are moving away from the Geek-era of "you design it and I'll learn how to use and master it," and back to the Nerd-era of, "you lay out the general idea and I'll run with it and see what I can do." Away from a technological, mechanical game design approach and back more towards an artitistic, individualized, mythological approach to design.) Not all ogres have to be the same ogre anymore. They never really had to be, but that was the way the game designs stressed it operating - so that compatibility was king, not Individuality. Now though, or once again (taek your pick) some ogres can be tall, hairy, brutish human thugs, and some can be terrible, vicious, semi-supernatural Grendels. And personally I like that design/construct a lot. Especially as regards Role Play Game Designs. They are, after all, Role Play Games. Not Programming Games. Or Game Apps. But it means the DM and players can't expect the designers to do all of the deisgn work anymore. Now it falls back to the DMs and players. Now the DM and players become true co-Creators and sub-Creators again, not just referees and character actors. It's now our job again to take a monster and make them truly Monstrous, depending upon the needs of the setting, players, and game. So I think the real solution is not to look to the Game Designers, they're doing their part with the general design, but to look to ourselves to do our part with the individualized specifics. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
5e: the demystification of monsters?
Top