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5th Edition -- Caster Rule, Martials Drool?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6364370" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Nod. The 6-8 encounter guideline /is/ intended to balance casters and non-casters. Casters now have at-wills that are pretty decent, so it takes a lot of rounds of casters falling back on cantrips to balance out the few rounds they spend casting spells. Frankly, I'm not convinced 6-8 will remain sufficient into double-digit levels, but, if your point is that there's not enough healing to see a party through that many encounters, the 'solution' should probably be more HD, not more spells, because HD are only used for healing, while spells can be used for anything.</p><p></p><p> Level 1 /is/ probably off - for the sake of tradition - you're also not level one for very long. Maybe you could try your analysis at level 5?</p><p></p><p> 4e illustrated a /lot/ of things (for instance, that you could balance martial classes and casters), but that wasn't one of them. How many foes you can catch in an are depends on the circumstances of the battle and the size and tactics of the foes. Frankly, in TotM, it also depends on the DM's approach. Some DMs may be a lot more generous than others. You might get anything from, "sure, you can hit all 5 orcs" to "you can't possibly cast that spell without hitting your allies."</p><p></p><p> One-round encounters (where we didn't even get to the bottom of the initiative order) happened in the playtest. Encounters could, conversely, go long if a PC or two dropped or was otherwise shut down early.</p><p></p><p>What you're missing is that what you're lamenting as 'boring' for the casters, because they're stuck doing it /some of the time/, is what non-casters do /all the time/. </p><p></p><p> That is another serious issue. In AD&D, there were six save categories, with some classes better at some than others, but /all/ saves improved with level (and, the fighter's improved fastest, giving him, overall, the best saves at high level). In 3e, 'poor' saves were /really/ poor, and the same is true in 5e. (Even in 4e, you had to pay a lot of feat taxes to keep one or two of your non-AC defenses from falling behind.)</p><p></p><p></p><p> I don't think they could have done that - put a martial class and a full caster class on the same standard in any sense - without provoking another edition war. There were a lot of things contributing to the edition war, but many of them did revolve around objections to the martial & magical classes being at all balanced. </p><p></p><p>The Warlock and Battlemaster already have fairly similar structures. Both are primarily short-rest-recharge on their features. The Warlock also gets high-level dailies, and the Battlemaster multiple attacks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6364370, member: 996"] Nod. The 6-8 encounter guideline /is/ intended to balance casters and non-casters. Casters now have at-wills that are pretty decent, so it takes a lot of rounds of casters falling back on cantrips to balance out the few rounds they spend casting spells. Frankly, I'm not convinced 6-8 will remain sufficient into double-digit levels, but, if your point is that there's not enough healing to see a party through that many encounters, the 'solution' should probably be more HD, not more spells, because HD are only used for healing, while spells can be used for anything. Level 1 /is/ probably off - for the sake of tradition - you're also not level one for very long. Maybe you could try your analysis at level 5? 4e illustrated a /lot/ of things (for instance, that you could balance martial classes and casters), but that wasn't one of them. How many foes you can catch in an are depends on the circumstances of the battle and the size and tactics of the foes. Frankly, in TotM, it also depends on the DM's approach. Some DMs may be a lot more generous than others. You might get anything from, "sure, you can hit all 5 orcs" to "you can't possibly cast that spell without hitting your allies." One-round encounters (where we didn't even get to the bottom of the initiative order) happened in the playtest. Encounters could, conversely, go long if a PC or two dropped or was otherwise shut down early. What you're missing is that what you're lamenting as 'boring' for the casters, because they're stuck doing it /some of the time/, is what non-casters do /all the time/. That is another serious issue. In AD&D, there were six save categories, with some classes better at some than others, but /all/ saves improved with level (and, the fighter's improved fastest, giving him, overall, the best saves at high level). In 3e, 'poor' saves were /really/ poor, and the same is true in 5e. (Even in 4e, you had to pay a lot of feat taxes to keep one or two of your non-AC defenses from falling behind.) I don't think they could have done that - put a martial class and a full caster class on the same standard in any sense - without provoking another edition war. There were a lot of things contributing to the edition war, but many of them did revolve around objections to the martial & magical classes being at all balanced. The Warlock and Battlemaster already have fairly similar structures. Both are primarily short-rest-recharge on their features. The Warlock also gets high-level dailies, and the Battlemaster multiple attacks. [/QUOTE]
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