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5th Edition -- Caster Rule, Martials Drool?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6364691" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>I do not want wizards fireballing every round. I do want the players of wizards to feel useful. The 5th level wizard can fire off 3 fireballs a day. But, his first level spells tend to be wimpier than melee PC damage per round, so those are no longer as worthwhile. They are his new cantrips.</p><p></p><p>What I want:</p><p></p><p>1) 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. 5E advertises it, but I do not think it delivers shy of PCs using a ton of group stealth and foes being mooks most of the time. I like real challenging fights where the players feel like their PCs are actually threatened and lots of them, not fights that are challenging only to resource management.</p><p></p><p>2) Pure spellcasters to be able to do their schtick once per encounter (on average). A cantrip or a light crossbow is not their schtick. They should feel productive in most encounters, at least for one round.</p><p></p><p>3) Melee PC to feel productive most encounters as well. If the wizard is casting Fireball 3 encounters in a row at level 5 and winning most of the encounters by himself, the melee PC players will feel non-productive, just like when the 5th level melee PCs rush into the room and take out half of the foes with their double damage before the wizard can cast his one or two cantrips in a one or two round fight.</p><p></p><p>4) PCs to NOT be fighting mooks most of the encounters in order to get to that 6-8.</p><p></p><p>I think that 5E accomplishes part of this. I think it is (like 1E and 2E and 3E without cure wands) weak on out of combat healing which means fewer real encounters. And I think that the DM can adjust the number of decent encounters that casters can cast in with a few judicious offensive wands and healing items.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Mostly, a caster's two highest levels of spells are the ones that are really cool and anything lower than that tends to be average at best. Lower level spells can become a bit obsolete, especially offensive ones. That's an average of 4.5 spells per day that are generally cool and some that are, not so cool. Some levels have a few more, some a few less. There are some spells (like maybe Hold Person) that scale well for 8 levels or so. Some like Shield are always good. But many spells do not scale that well (and putting them into higher slots means that they are no longer a low level spell).</p><p></p><p>Sure, Dimension Door is good at any level, but it doesn't really make the caster shine offensively. There are a lot of utility spells or defensive spells that do not mean that the caster is hogging the show.</p><p></p><p>Just like more consistent damage, better hit points, and better AC does not necessarily mean that the non-caster is hogging the show. It only means this if the caster is not being that productive many encounters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6364691, member: 2011"] I do not want wizards fireballing every round. I do want the players of wizards to feel useful. The 5th level wizard can fire off 3 fireballs a day. But, his first level spells tend to be wimpier than melee PC damage per round, so those are no longer as worthwhile. They are his new cantrips. What I want: 1) 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. 5E advertises it, but I do not think it delivers shy of PCs using a ton of group stealth and foes being mooks most of the time. I like real challenging fights where the players feel like their PCs are actually threatened and lots of them, not fights that are challenging only to resource management. 2) Pure spellcasters to be able to do their schtick once per encounter (on average). A cantrip or a light crossbow is not their schtick. They should feel productive in most encounters, at least for one round. 3) Melee PC to feel productive most encounters as well. If the wizard is casting Fireball 3 encounters in a row at level 5 and winning most of the encounters by himself, the melee PC players will feel non-productive, just like when the 5th level melee PCs rush into the room and take out half of the foes with their double damage before the wizard can cast his one or two cantrips in a one or two round fight. 4) PCs to NOT be fighting mooks most of the encounters in order to get to that 6-8. I think that 5E accomplishes part of this. I think it is (like 1E and 2E and 3E without cure wands) weak on out of combat healing which means fewer real encounters. And I think that the DM can adjust the number of decent encounters that casters can cast in with a few judicious offensive wands and healing items. Mostly, a caster's two highest levels of spells are the ones that are really cool and anything lower than that tends to be average at best. Lower level spells can become a bit obsolete, especially offensive ones. That's an average of 4.5 spells per day that are generally cool and some that are, not so cool. Some levels have a few more, some a few less. There are some spells (like maybe Hold Person) that scale well for 8 levels or so. Some like Shield are always good. But many spells do not scale that well (and putting them into higher slots means that they are no longer a low level spell). Sure, Dimension Door is good at any level, but it doesn't really make the caster shine offensively. There are a lot of utility spells or defensive spells that do not mean that the caster is hogging the show. Just like more consistent damage, better hit points, and better AC does not necessarily mean that the non-caster is hogging the show. It only means this if the caster is not being that productive many encounters. [/QUOTE]
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