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A 30th-level Party needs 50th-level Monsters...
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<blockquote data-quote="kenmarable" data-source="post: 3736520" data-attributes="member: 40359"><p>My understanding of their reasoning (not that I agree with it, but it was their stated reasoning) wasn't that "dragons are special so CR is handled different with them" but instead it was that dragons wouldn't be typically used as a random encounter and therefore PCs would typically be prepared for them (I recall seeing Sean Reynolds stating this - and disagreeing with it - in the earlier days of 3.0?). It is much as they CRs of undead are based on the assumption that there is a cleric capable of turning undead. If that assumption is wrong, then the CR must be adjusted (I think Sean Reynolds suggested roughly +2 CR for dragons).</p><p></p><p>If they were consistent with these assumptions, I would figure the tarrasque CR would similiarly be adjusted. So it isn't "dragons are special because they are in the title" it was an assumption on standard games.</p><p></p><p>I certainly don't agree with that in the least. I think assuming there is a cleric capable of turning undead is a safer assumption than a party always facing a dragon at least moderately prepared, but it was the 1.0 version of the CR system, so I don't fault them for having excessive assumptions. Dunno about the 3.5 revision though and whether they kept similar assumptions. Also, don't know how many other ones are buried in the books and haven't been stated. If they had just added a couple sentences to the dragon entry clearly stating this, I don't think it would be nearly the debate and complaining about 3.x dragon CRs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kenmarable, post: 3736520, member: 40359"] My understanding of their reasoning (not that I agree with it, but it was their stated reasoning) wasn't that "dragons are special so CR is handled different with them" but instead it was that dragons wouldn't be typically used as a random encounter and therefore PCs would typically be prepared for them (I recall seeing Sean Reynolds stating this - and disagreeing with it - in the earlier days of 3.0?). It is much as they CRs of undead are based on the assumption that there is a cleric capable of turning undead. If that assumption is wrong, then the CR must be adjusted (I think Sean Reynolds suggested roughly +2 CR for dragons). If they were consistent with these assumptions, I would figure the tarrasque CR would similiarly be adjusted. So it isn't "dragons are special because they are in the title" it was an assumption on standard games. I certainly don't agree with that in the least. I think assuming there is a cleric capable of turning undead is a safer assumption than a party always facing a dragon at least moderately prepared, but it was the 1.0 version of the CR system, so I don't fault them for having excessive assumptions. Dunno about the 3.5 revision though and whether they kept similar assumptions. Also, don't know how many other ones are buried in the books and haven't been stated. If they had just added a couple sentences to the dragon entry clearly stating this, I don't think it would be nearly the debate and complaining about 3.x dragon CRs. [/QUOTE]
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