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A couple of questions on 4E Immortal design
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<blockquote data-quote="Axolotl" data-source="post: 5066623" data-attributes="member: 41680"><p>Hey Upper_Krust!</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Well hopefully you'll get there before 5th edition. I would note that most of my questions arose from trying to create my own immortal rules for 4th edition.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well I was mainly using QP as XP post 30th level. However I changed the way QP was gained to how it was in IH 3rd edition, interestingly enough for immortal PC's I found that QP was still gained in the same way generally. Discounting QP from worship (which I never felt many PC would focus on) Power obviously works the same way but gaining QP for events or via soul objects and apertures worked identically to the quest XP if spaced correctly. </p><p></p><p>My main problem here was when creating rules for immortals I found I was basically just re-introducing concepts from 3rd edition which had been removed (Magic item crafting, epic spellcasting, summoning etc). However these elements worked much better for Immortal gaming and the lack of them work hurt the system in my view but on the other hand I don't want introduce something that was consciously left out of the system. I was just wondering how you would interpret the system.</p><p></p><p>I always felt the worship system was to slow to be honest, it felt somewhat clunky for PCs to deal especially when the option of murdering outsiders was avalible. I'd certainly want to see it in 4th edition but I'd prefer it somewhat simplified. </p><p></p><p>I don't think that's as ridiculous as it may seem. If you're questing/fighting that much then either: </p><p>A) There's a long "off-screen" downtime between quests, since gods in DnD spend most of their time sitting around observing things I don't feel as if much would be lost if the players are skipping centuries at a time between sessions, meaning that the 2-3 years real time represent millenia of game time. </p><p>B) The other option of course is that it's some form of apocalypse/Ragnarok is going on in which case a fast Immortal to Sidereal turnover is somewhat justified.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I was thinking of it more from a mechanical point of view. Non-Deity (but still immortal power level) characters should function differently, however I'm not confidant the 4th edition system supports such mechanical diversity.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Is it any good? I'm always eager for epic material for any system but most of 4th editions published adventures have been underwhelming.</p><p></p><p>[qutoe]Some elements depend upon how you change (or if you change) Orcus at all - the 4E version is pretty good, but then that caps the adventure for about Level 30...and with about 13 encounters in each part, you are looking at a 3 Level spread at best 28-29 (Castle Perilous, Against Zhenghi on Toril) and 29-30 (Against Orcus in the Abyss).</p></blockquote><p>I was more interpreting it as a campaign that would run 24-30 using the standard Orcus rules. </p><p></p><p>I was more imagining Orcus as the last fight for 40th level characters with his death bringing them to true godhood. </p><p></p><p>The thing is I can think of several ideas for both Epic/Exalted versions of H4 but I'm not sure which would work best, I'm attracted to the idea of Zhenghi as the last fight for mortals ascending to 31st level to take on the Abyss, but that means you'd need a lot of Abyss to fight.</p><p></p><p>Yeah but the operative word there is "will". I have no doubt it will be cool my concern is that it won't be cool for a long time due to the distinct flaw of not existing.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Axolotl, post: 5066623, member: 41680"] Hey Upper_Krust! Well hopefully you'll get there before 5th edition. I would note that most of my questions arose from trying to create my own immortal rules for 4th edition. Well I was mainly using QP as XP post 30th level. However I changed the way QP was gained to how it was in IH 3rd edition, interestingly enough for immortal PC's I found that QP was still gained in the same way generally. Discounting QP from worship (which I never felt many PC would focus on) Power obviously works the same way but gaining QP for events or via soul objects and apertures worked identically to the quest XP if spaced correctly. My main problem here was when creating rules for immortals I found I was basically just re-introducing concepts from 3rd edition which had been removed (Magic item crafting, epic spellcasting, summoning etc). However these elements worked much better for Immortal gaming and the lack of them work hurt the system in my view but on the other hand I don't want introduce something that was consciously left out of the system. I was just wondering how you would interpret the system. I always felt the worship system was to slow to be honest, it felt somewhat clunky for PCs to deal especially when the option of murdering outsiders was avalible. I'd certainly want to see it in 4th edition but I'd prefer it somewhat simplified. I don't think that's as ridiculous as it may seem. If you're questing/fighting that much then either: A) There's a long "off-screen" downtime between quests, since gods in DnD spend most of their time sitting around observing things I don't feel as if much would be lost if the players are skipping centuries at a time between sessions, meaning that the 2-3 years real time represent millenia of game time. B) The other option of course is that it's some form of apocalypse/Ragnarok is going on in which case a fast Immortal to Sidereal turnover is somewhat justified. I was thinking of it more from a mechanical point of view. Non-Deity (but still immortal power level) characters should function differently, however I'm not confidant the 4th edition system supports such mechanical diversity. Is it any good? I'm always eager for epic material for any system but most of 4th editions published adventures have been underwhelming. [qutoe]Some elements depend upon how you change (or if you change) Orcus at all - the 4E version is pretty good, but then that caps the adventure for about Level 30...and with about 13 encounters in each part, you are looking at a 3 Level spread at best 28-29 (Castle Perilous, Against Zhenghi on Toril) and 29-30 (Against Orcus in the Abyss).[/quote]I was more interpreting it as a campaign that would run 24-30 using the standard Orcus rules. I was more imagining Orcus as the last fight for 40th level characters with his death bringing them to true godhood. The thing is I can think of several ideas for both Epic/Exalted versions of H4 but I'm not sure which would work best, I'm attracted to the idea of Zhenghi as the last fight for mortals ascending to 31st level to take on the Abyss, but that means you'd need a lot of Abyss to fight. Yeah but the operative word there is "will". I have no doubt it will be cool my concern is that it won't be cool for a long time due to the distinct flaw of not existing. [/QUOTE]
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