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A couple of questions on 4E Immortal design
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<blockquote data-quote="Ltheb Silverfrond" data-source="post: 5075536" data-attributes="member: 39867"><p>U_K!</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, in H6, throne of bloodstone, one could run the old 1d1000 Balors thing. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>While I do miss those good old days of 3E/3.5E GMing, I certainly do NOT miss the work! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>After looking at your Thrin conversion, I have a couple of questions about 4E Epic+ design:</p><p>(I am not exactly sure if you answered any of these before, so bare with me here...)</p><p></p><p>1. Are you planning on altering the mechanical progression of dice-damage tables, 1/2 level bonuses, feats, and the like significantly from the Core design? </p><p> - I think it might be needed to keep the numbers from going askew, but there are so many factors a 30th level character can utilize that it is somewhat like the high-end 3E characters. (Although not as insane as playing a 30 level+ wizard in 3E <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />)</p><p></p><p>2. Do you plan on utilizing an 'absolutes' type system for your immortal design? (Based on the Thrin stats)</p><p> - While certainly 'epic', absolutes are a bit clunky when they conflict. (Such as in the 3E IH: Perfect Attack vs Perfect defense: The PC takes perfect attack, and pretty much discards attack bonus, but then fights an enemy with perfect defense, where all that suddenly matters again!)</p><p></p><p>3. What do you plan on doing with epic destinies and the magic item glut that are 30th level characters?</p><p> - Unless you are making a 30th level character 'from scratch', the character would easily have dozens of magical items at their disposal by 30th level, with the included dozens of modifiers to go with them. </p><p> - Epic destinies are also a bit of a design headache: At 30th levels, the designers gave each one a 'win the game' power. Seriously, if the player cannot break the game over their knee with their 30th level power, they must be trying hard not to! Example: The Lorekeeper epic destiny easily can provide infinite healing-surge-less healing and the Swordmage epic destiny can do monstrous things with heavy-blade opportunity and Dimensional Charge. </p><p></p><p>4. Ability-score scaled abilities: What to do with them.</p><p> - The wizard's Orb of Imposition, as an example. Powers that have a non-damage effect based on an ability score (sliding X squares, -X to saves/defenses, +X to attack rolls; things that Players Handbook classes can do, let alone additional source books)</p><p> - These abilities get out of hand if ability scores keep improving. While the 'Orb can only get, at best, <strong>-10</strong> to the targets saves from demigod, what happens when the max level is 60? Oh, I am sorry mr. Nexus Dragon, but you are <strong>minus forty</strong> to saving throws. I cast "ultra-epic stunlock 9!" (Or whatever obscene synergy a player might employ)</p><p></p><p>These kinds of things stick out to me like a sore thumb; I don't know, but I have been writing adventures for my 4E home games and designing almost all the (hundreds of) monsters for them from scratch for two years now, and those things jump out at me as the big hurdles to epic+ level games.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ltheb Silverfrond, post: 5075536, member: 39867"] U_K! So, in H6, throne of bloodstone, one could run the old 1d1000 Balors thing. :) While I do miss those good old days of 3E/3.5E GMing, I certainly do NOT miss the work! :) After looking at your Thrin conversion, I have a couple of questions about 4E Epic+ design: (I am not exactly sure if you answered any of these before, so bare with me here...) 1. Are you planning on altering the mechanical progression of dice-damage tables, 1/2 level bonuses, feats, and the like significantly from the Core design? - I think it might be needed to keep the numbers from going askew, but there are so many factors a 30th level character can utilize that it is somewhat like the high-end 3E characters. (Although not as insane as playing a 30 level+ wizard in 3E :)) 2. Do you plan on utilizing an 'absolutes' type system for your immortal design? (Based on the Thrin stats) - While certainly 'epic', absolutes are a bit clunky when they conflict. (Such as in the 3E IH: Perfect Attack vs Perfect defense: The PC takes perfect attack, and pretty much discards attack bonus, but then fights an enemy with perfect defense, where all that suddenly matters again!) 3. What do you plan on doing with epic destinies and the magic item glut that are 30th level characters? - Unless you are making a 30th level character 'from scratch', the character would easily have dozens of magical items at their disposal by 30th level, with the included dozens of modifiers to go with them. - Epic destinies are also a bit of a design headache: At 30th levels, the designers gave each one a 'win the game' power. Seriously, if the player cannot break the game over their knee with their 30th level power, they must be trying hard not to! Example: The Lorekeeper epic destiny easily can provide infinite healing-surge-less healing and the Swordmage epic destiny can do monstrous things with heavy-blade opportunity and Dimensional Charge. 4. Ability-score scaled abilities: What to do with them. - The wizard's Orb of Imposition, as an example. Powers that have a non-damage effect based on an ability score (sliding X squares, -X to saves/defenses, +X to attack rolls; things that Players Handbook classes can do, let alone additional source books) - These abilities get out of hand if ability scores keep improving. While the 'Orb can only get, at best, [b]-10[/b] to the targets saves from demigod, what happens when the max level is 60? Oh, I am sorry mr. Nexus Dragon, but you are [b]minus forty[/b] to saving throws. I cast "ultra-epic stunlock 9!" (Or whatever obscene synergy a player might employ) These kinds of things stick out to me like a sore thumb; I don't know, but I have been writing adventures for my 4E home games and designing almost all the (hundreds of) monsters for them from scratch for two years now, and those things jump out at me as the big hurdles to epic+ level games. [/QUOTE]
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