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A couple of questions on 4E Immortal design
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<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5075867" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Howdy Ltheb mate! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. Although a few things of note. 4E Balors (in fact Balors from 2E onwards) are notably more powerful than their 1E incarnations. So you might want to scale that back a tad, although looking at my Unit rules, 1000 4E Balors would be roughly on a par with a greater god version of Orcus.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Neither do I. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fire away mate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't worry about that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. I was (a few months back) going to alter the ability score bonus expression, but I had that explained to me why its a bad idea.</p><p></p><p>The only thing I am planning on changing (and even that might change) is having Divine Abilities replace feats. So that instead of gaining a new feat at Level 31, you would replace a feat with a divine ability. Divine Abilities would be about twice as powerful as a single feat in 4E.</p><p></p><p>The reason for this is to keep 4E book-keeping to a minimum and cap the number of feats you can have at 18 (IIRC).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The only real problem is the +1 tier difference in monster defense progression over PC attack progression, which is why Expertise was introduced. However, even that isn't really necessary since you'd expect a party of capable epic+ gamers to have some decent synergy bonuses in play during combat. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think with 4E the trick is to give absolutes but sparingly. So that, for instance a PC Thrin might have an Encounter based power that means all his attacks hit that round (or something like that). But it won't destabilize the game because its only temporary.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Another reason why 4E is better. You can have absolutes but they won't break the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll be looking into that more when I get deeper into thats books production, although at a glance I think you can only have 10-11 items functioning at one time, also the main difference between 3E and 4E items is that the latter are less multifaceted and far more focused.</p><p></p><p>So a weapon for an epic 3E character might have ten different properties (or more if its intelligent). While in 4E it will have one property with maybe one activated special ability - that makes a big difference.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thats true, and without revising every epic destiny (something I have no intention of doing) I think what you have to do is make the monsters a lot more nasty. By nasty I don't simply mean bigger levels and more damage, I mean different damage types (Void, Atomic, Divine etc.) that will mess up players, inflicting different conditions, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure yet, its definately a problem with an ability score based mechanic affecting saving throws. Probably the biggest problem facing epic+ games.</p><p></p><p><strong>One possibility is that you would revise the saving throw so that it was based on the Wizards Bonus, minus the targets bonus, does that seem a tad clunky?</strong></p><p></p><p>Another method is to allow it as written, but give the target ways to break the effect.</p><p></p><p>But if you could ban/revise any type of power from 4E, this would probably be it.</p><p></p><p>I imagine I'll come up with something. In the meantime, mega and larger size monsters are already immune to status effects from smaller opponents, so the stun-lock thing won't work on Godzilla. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The 'stun-locking' threat (especially vs. Solo Monsters) is the real problem facing epic+ games in 4E. I wouldn't worry about the rest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 5075867, member: 326"] Howdy Ltheb mate! :) Yes. Although a few things of note. 4E Balors (in fact Balors from 2E onwards) are notably more powerful than their 1E incarnations. So you might want to scale that back a tad, although looking at my Unit rules, 1000 4E Balors would be roughly on a par with a greater god version of Orcus. Neither do I. ;) Fire away mate. Don't worry about that. No. I was (a few months back) going to alter the ability score bonus expression, but I had that explained to me why its a bad idea. The only thing I am planning on changing (and even that might change) is having Divine Abilities replace feats. So that instead of gaining a new feat at Level 31, you would replace a feat with a divine ability. Divine Abilities would be about twice as powerful as a single feat in 4E. The reason for this is to keep 4E book-keeping to a minimum and cap the number of feats you can have at 18 (IIRC). The only real problem is the +1 tier difference in monster defense progression over PC attack progression, which is why Expertise was introduced. However, even that isn't really necessary since you'd expect a party of capable epic+ gamers to have some decent synergy bonuses in play during combat. I think with 4E the trick is to give absolutes but sparingly. So that, for instance a PC Thrin might have an Encounter based power that means all his attacks hit that round (or something like that). But it won't destabilize the game because its only temporary. Another reason why 4E is better. You can have absolutes but they won't break the game. I'll be looking into that more when I get deeper into thats books production, although at a glance I think you can only have 10-11 items functioning at one time, also the main difference between 3E and 4E items is that the latter are less multifaceted and far more focused. So a weapon for an epic 3E character might have ten different properties (or more if its intelligent). While in 4E it will have one property with maybe one activated special ability - that makes a big difference. Thats true, and without revising every epic destiny (something I have no intention of doing) I think what you have to do is make the monsters a lot more nasty. By nasty I don't simply mean bigger levels and more damage, I mean different damage types (Void, Atomic, Divine etc.) that will mess up players, inflicting different conditions, etc. I'm not sure yet, its definately a problem with an ability score based mechanic affecting saving throws. Probably the biggest problem facing epic+ games. [B]One possibility is that you would revise the saving throw so that it was based on the Wizards Bonus, minus the targets bonus, does that seem a tad clunky?[/B] Another method is to allow it as written, but give the target ways to break the effect. But if you could ban/revise any type of power from 4E, this would probably be it. I imagine I'll come up with something. In the meantime, mega and larger size monsters are already immune to status effects from smaller opponents, so the stun-lock thing won't work on Godzilla. :) The 'stun-locking' threat (especially vs. Solo Monsters) is the real problem facing epic+ games in 4E. I wouldn't worry about the rest. [/QUOTE]
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