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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7457218" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Very good post here.</p><p></p><p>I think each discrete part is very salient. I think the first part happens to be a big component of these conversations because a great many D&D players seem to have internalized an AD&D rules paradigm as representing something like the actual mental overhead that is going on in physical, hand-to-hand combat...when they, in all likelihood, have never engaged in actual hand-to-hand combat. </p><p></p><p>Most D&D combats entail something like the equivalent of an low proficiency blue belt in Brazilian Jiujitsu tangling with an extremely proficient purple or brown belt (that being the Fighter). Trust me when I say that, while belt is an indicator of knowledge, it certainly isn't that great of an indicator of how potent a single BJJ player is. Average black belts can get utterly_wrecked by extremely proficient purple belts who are long-limbed, have extremely loose hips, a nasty/active guard, great transitions/control, maybe just an average Arm Bar/Choke game, but a brutal Arm Triangle and Gogoplata from guard.</p><p></p><p>Guys that are that good (as D&D Fighters would be) would be playing a constant game of linear catch-22 chess with combatants, just as it happens when a great BJJ player is rolling with someone significantly inferior. The mental overhead is all about pacing > managing positioning/transitions, pushing when you're ready and putting your opponent in a bad catch-22 where you're dictating the positioning, rinse/repeat until finish. You're moving down a linear track of A > B > C > D > E > FINISHED (if you get that far). That is what it means to be immersed as an extremely proficient combatant. TTRPG PC build tools (that some mistakenly consider metagame constructs) that let the warrior ration their ability, inflict catch-22s, dictate position, and push the pace at their discretion are EXACTLY what its like to be inhabiting the mental framework of an extremely proficient and practiced warrior in dangerous combat. Without PC build or action resolution mechanics that even shallowly representing that paradigm you have absolutely_zero ability to inhabit that mental framework.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7457218, member: 6696971"] Very good post here. I think each discrete part is very salient. I think the first part happens to be a big component of these conversations because a great many D&D players seem to have internalized an AD&D rules paradigm as representing something like the actual mental overhead that is going on in physical, hand-to-hand combat...when they, in all likelihood, have never engaged in actual hand-to-hand combat. Most D&D combats entail something like the equivalent of an low proficiency blue belt in Brazilian Jiujitsu tangling with an extremely proficient purple or brown belt (that being the Fighter). Trust me when I say that, while belt is an indicator of knowledge, it certainly isn't that great of an indicator of how potent a single BJJ player is. Average black belts can get utterly_wrecked by extremely proficient purple belts who are long-limbed, have extremely loose hips, a nasty/active guard, great transitions/control, maybe just an average Arm Bar/Choke game, but a brutal Arm Triangle and Gogoplata from guard. Guys that are that good (as D&D Fighters would be) would be playing a constant game of linear catch-22 chess with combatants, just as it happens when a great BJJ player is rolling with someone significantly inferior. The mental overhead is all about pacing > managing positioning/transitions, pushing when you're ready and putting your opponent in a bad catch-22 where you're dictating the positioning, rinse/repeat until finish. You're moving down a linear track of A > B > C > D > E > FINISHED (if you get that far). That is what it means to be immersed as an extremely proficient combatant. TTRPG PC build tools (that some mistakenly consider metagame constructs) that let the warrior ration their ability, inflict catch-22s, dictate position, and push the pace at their discretion are EXACTLY what its like to be inhabiting the mental framework of an extremely proficient and practiced warrior in dangerous combat. Without PC build or action resolution mechanics that even shallowly representing that paradigm you have absolutely_zero ability to inhabit that mental framework. [/QUOTE]
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