Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7459636" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>It's similar with Beyond the Wall. However, BtW is more young adult oriented. It takes inspiration from the novels of Ursula LeGuin (Earthsea), Lloyd Alexander (Chronicles of Prydain), Tolkien (The Hobbit), and arguably the first few books of Robert Jordan (Wheel of Time), where it is often about relatively young heroes exploring beyond the bounds of their lifelong homes and grow into heroes. It's why playbooks are generally are akin to "Would-Be Knight," "Self-Taught Mage," "Young Woodsman," or "Untested Thief," etc. You may be level 1 in the game, but you are level 0 in life. As such, BtW generally assumes that your characters belong to the same village or town. </p><p></p><p>Your background questions are generally about your history in this town: who are your parents? how were you distinguished as a child? how did you learn your trade? Who was village adult who you were close with? But most of these answers are fairly generic and give the player and GM room to collaboratively create. It's really about basic things like, "Okay, Player 2. You get to create and place a location in the town. Since you rolled that your parents are blacksmiths, perhaps you should add a smithy." Your players will create the minimum and then you get to fill in the rest. </p><p></p><p>Yeah, WOIN looks pretty neat, but I have too many other systems to try first. </p><p></p><p>Although this is 'metagame' - and not appropriate for your tastes - it also isn't an issue for me because of how it blends player and player character engagement. The player must engage and roleplay their character in order to invoke their aspects. The player characters are pushing themselves when it pertains to who they are, their values, their history, and their nature. I just don't see metagame mechanics as a bogeyman when it actually engenders roleplay and player enagement. </p><p></p><p>Sure but sometimes you don't necessarily know what would be appropriate for your character until during the midst of play itself. IMO, this is the benefit of Fate's mechanic here. You may call it metagame, but it ensures that the roleplay can continue without player-PC dissonance disruption. Not all metagaming breaks roleplaying immersion. It's the player character saying, "Hey, I was a bodyguard for the prince, so I know there is actually a secret entrance that leads from the outer garden shed to the palace kitchen." </p><p></p><p>Oh, I understand that this is not what you are looking for in a game, but as I said before, I like talking about Fate. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> </p><p></p><p>I am going to recommend the Black Hack again, which apparently will have a second edition this year. (I just found out about 2e from a recently finished Kickstarter.) It is D&D O/BX meets 5E. Stripped down basic classes: warrior, thief, conjuror, cleric. Advantage/disadvantage. Unified roll-under-ability checks: for saves, attacks, and skills. Super customizable. Cheap (~$2). Entire rules are ~20 pages.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7459636, member: 5142"] It's similar with Beyond the Wall. However, BtW is more young adult oriented. It takes inspiration from the novels of Ursula LeGuin (Earthsea), Lloyd Alexander (Chronicles of Prydain), Tolkien (The Hobbit), and arguably the first few books of Robert Jordan (Wheel of Time), where it is often about relatively young heroes exploring beyond the bounds of their lifelong homes and grow into heroes. It's why playbooks are generally are akin to "Would-Be Knight," "Self-Taught Mage," "Young Woodsman," or "Untested Thief," etc. You may be level 1 in the game, but you are level 0 in life. As such, BtW generally assumes that your characters belong to the same village or town. Your background questions are generally about your history in this town: who are your parents? how were you distinguished as a child? how did you learn your trade? Who was village adult who you were close with? But most of these answers are fairly generic and give the player and GM room to collaboratively create. It's really about basic things like, "Okay, Player 2. You get to create and place a location in the town. Since you rolled that your parents are blacksmiths, perhaps you should add a smithy." Your players will create the minimum and then you get to fill in the rest. Yeah, WOIN looks pretty neat, but I have too many other systems to try first. Although this is 'metagame' - and not appropriate for your tastes - it also isn't an issue for me because of how it blends player and player character engagement. The player must engage and roleplay their character in order to invoke their aspects. The player characters are pushing themselves when it pertains to who they are, their values, their history, and their nature. I just don't see metagame mechanics as a bogeyman when it actually engenders roleplay and player enagement. Sure but sometimes you don't necessarily know what would be appropriate for your character until during the midst of play itself. IMO, this is the benefit of Fate's mechanic here. You may call it metagame, but it ensures that the roleplay can continue without player-PC dissonance disruption. Not all metagaming breaks roleplaying immersion. It's the player character saying, "Hey, I was a bodyguard for the prince, so I know there is actually a secret entrance that leads from the outer garden shed to the palace kitchen." Oh, I understand that this is not what you are looking for in a game, but as I said before, I like talking about Fate. :p I am going to recommend the Black Hack again, which apparently will have a second edition this year. (I just found out about 2e from a recently finished Kickstarter.) It is D&D O/BX meets 5E. Stripped down basic classes: warrior, thief, conjuror, cleric. Advantage/disadvantage. Unified roll-under-ability checks: for saves, attacks, and skills. Super customizable. Cheap (~$2). Entire rules are ~20 pages. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
Top