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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7462930" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The ingame explanation is the same way s/he knows s/he is breathing, or hurting - s/he feels it.</p><p></p><p>There's no "gradually increaasing".</p><p></p><p>You start being able to memorise (say) 1 1st level spell. Then you can memorise 2. Then you can memorise 1 second level spell as well. Then 3 1st and 2 2nd. (I'm using the AD&D charts.) Each step up corresponds exactly to a class level - so if you treat Vancian memorisation as an in-fiction thing, then the wizards can rank themselves exactly based on their memorisation ability, and that ranking will correlate exactly to class levels. (At least up until 8th level. At 9th level and above it is complicated because some wizards with INTs that are too low don't get the 5th or higher level slots.) </p><p></p><p>No, that's not what I'm assuming. Of course some spells are chosen because - given the nature of D&D play, which itself has a high metagame component (eg players know that, everything else being equal, they are more likely to have to successfully fight orcs than to successfully balance a ledger) - they are generally good.</p><p></p><p>My point, and [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION]'s as I understand it, is that (i) the whole categorisation of spells into levels, which are available to players in the form of slots per spell level, is an obvious gameplay device, and that (ii) its function as a gameplay device is to set up the opportunity for skilled players to do their stuff by optimising their load out.</p><p></p><p>Layering a veneer of in-fiction rationale over the top of it doesn'lt change these features. And it's no coincidence that metagame-repudiating systems like RQ and RM don't use anything like it for their magic systems.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7462930, member: 42582"] The ingame explanation is the same way s/he knows s/he is breathing, or hurting - s/he feels it. There's no "gradually increaasing". You start being able to memorise (say) 1 1st level spell. Then you can memorise 2. Then you can memorise 1 second level spell as well. Then 3 1st and 2 2nd. (I'm using the AD&D charts.) Each step up corresponds exactly to a class level - so if you treat Vancian memorisation as an in-fiction thing, then the wizards can rank themselves exactly based on their memorisation ability, and that ranking will correlate exactly to class levels. (At least up until 8th level. At 9th level and above it is complicated because some wizards with INTs that are too low don't get the 5th or higher level slots.) No, that's not what I'm assuming. Of course some spells are chosen because - given the nature of D&D play, which itself has a high metagame component (eg players know that, everything else being equal, they are more likely to have to successfully fight orcs than to successfully balance a ledger) - they are generally good. My point, and [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION]'s as I understand it, is that (i) the whole categorisation of spells into levels, which are available to players in the form of slots per spell level, is an obvious gameplay device, and that (ii) its function as a gameplay device is to set up the opportunity for skilled players to do their stuff by optimising their load out. Layering a veneer of in-fiction rationale over the top of it doesn'lt change these features. And it's no coincidence that metagame-repudiating systems like RQ and RM don't use anything like it for their magic systems. [/QUOTE]
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