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General Tabletop Discussion
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A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="Kobold Boots" data-source="post: 7463990" data-attributes="member: 92239"><p>Hi Shasarak - </p><p></p><p>Dropping in due to the mention. I think that there's a different definition of metagaming that I subscribe to which is ever so slightly different than the definition of the OP. Additionally, I've not read the first 28 pages aside from the OP, so there's a good chance this is going to go tangentially to the original reason for your post.</p><p></p><p>Definition of metagaming for me is: Player makes a decision that his or her character could not reasonably make because it requires player knowledge of the rules that the character could not logically make due to lack of similar knowledge in game.</p><p></p><p>So a player building his character out for 20 levels in advance with all bells and whistles before game start is definitely metagaming.</p><p>The same player making plans for his character five levels out because the character has developed his or her relationships with their guilds or trainers and knows more or less where they want to spend their time is not metagaming.</p><p></p><p>The difference is obvious, but it's not likely to come up unless you've got an older school DM that bakes that stuff in due to habit from the old days. I've some players in my contacts list that prefer it, and many more who would look at me funny if I suggested it.</p><p></p><p>Be well</p><p>KB</p><p></p><p>Edit note for detail only.</p><p></p><p>When playing 1e there were optional rules in the DMG for requiring training before fully leveling up. Additionally, the XP totals for some classes to level were higher than others (I remember it taking more XP to level as a mage, but there were other examples).</p><p></p><p>So sometimes a player would meta level because they knew they passed a XP mark for fighter and didn't want to wait to level as the other class. Other times, the player would need to make a contact that could train them for their next level and it got harder as they advanced beyond what they could get regionally. </p><p></p><p>This all goes back to the kinds of things that we discussed in the other thread and why the behaviors you find problematic in DMs I likely wouldn't. Coming up as a 1e player with a "to yearn for it is to earn it" DM, is way different than coming up with a 3e DM that didn't have Gary's advice to rummage through. (Assuming that's the case, you could be way earlier and I'd never know.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kobold Boots, post: 7463990, member: 92239"] Hi Shasarak - Dropping in due to the mention. I think that there's a different definition of metagaming that I subscribe to which is ever so slightly different than the definition of the OP. Additionally, I've not read the first 28 pages aside from the OP, so there's a good chance this is going to go tangentially to the original reason for your post. Definition of metagaming for me is: Player makes a decision that his or her character could not reasonably make because it requires player knowledge of the rules that the character could not logically make due to lack of similar knowledge in game. So a player building his character out for 20 levels in advance with all bells and whistles before game start is definitely metagaming. The same player making plans for his character five levels out because the character has developed his or her relationships with their guilds or trainers and knows more or less where they want to spend their time is not metagaming. The difference is obvious, but it's not likely to come up unless you've got an older school DM that bakes that stuff in due to habit from the old days. I've some players in my contacts list that prefer it, and many more who would look at me funny if I suggested it. Be well KB Edit note for detail only. When playing 1e there were optional rules in the DMG for requiring training before fully leveling up. Additionally, the XP totals for some classes to level were higher than others (I remember it taking more XP to level as a mage, but there were other examples). So sometimes a player would meta level because they knew they passed a XP mark for fighter and didn't want to wait to level as the other class. Other times, the player would need to make a contact that could train them for their next level and it got harder as they advanced beyond what they could get regionally. This all goes back to the kinds of things that we discussed in the other thread and why the behaviors you find problematic in DMs I likely wouldn't. Coming up as a 1e player with a "to yearn for it is to earn it" DM, is way different than coming up with a 3e DM that didn't have Gary's advice to rummage through. (Assuming that's the case, you could be way earlier and I'd never know.) [/QUOTE]
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